Is the tide turning???????

[goodattitudegirl]

OMG, I don't know where to start! This has been a VERY busy week in real life AND DB life. I know that my posts are way too long, but I can't post from work and real life is pretty busy too, so please forgive me for long posts and for taking so long to catch up on all of your posts. You all are in my thoughts and prayers throughout the week. I am keeping up with your sitches and cheering for all of you, even if you do not hear from me. Today, I’m going to post twice: (1) to reply to your very insightful feedback and (2) to relate an e-mail I received from XH the day after we had dinner and TT together.

Thank you Missher, Lorie, CW, Mila, Sanderika, and Rabbit for your very wise counsel. You all see things from the outside that I don’t see from within the situation. When I read your words, knowing your own individual stories, the gift of your sharing your hard won wisdom with me makes my eyes tear up. Your words resonate with me deeply. Thank you!!!!!!!!!

Lorie, thank you for your encouragement. Yes, I think XH is peeking out.

CW, did you decide to fix up your fish tank????? I’ll be watching to see if this become a thread between you and H.

Mila, thanks for your continued encouragement. My XH has only recently begun to show that he HAS actually been watching me and hearing what I’ve said. I think the same probably applies in your situation.

Missher, I laughed when I read this:

I just love these debrief's.....come into work, dispense with the morning's tasks and get my coffee and settle in for an update.

The stories of our lives as posted on these blogs can be quite addicting, can’t they? I feel the same way about many of the threads I follow here.

These are all very good signs that he is "thinking" about you when he is away from you. He is also thinking about you in his future plans, you are part of his life now.

Thanks for pointing this out to me. I hadn’t thought of these events in this way, especially the “future plans” part. I’ve read SO many posts from reconnected LBSs who talk about their WAS planning future vacations with them before as one of the first big steps in reconciling. Not saying that is what THIS is, but it IS forward progress. I didn’t see that until you pointed it out. Thanks! Your succinct summary also underscored for me just how much XH IS actually listening to me, just like DR says and others have reported during piecing. I’ve just never seen firm evidence of this until now.

Ideas for next time....sit next to him while he shows you his ipad and do alot of unecessary touching. When he hugs you again.....tell him that "that feels nice, I like it when you hug me"

These are GREAT ideas!!!!!! Makes me realize how much I have pulled back since the bomb so as not to elicit XH’s anger. You are absolutely right in this assessment! I can feel it in my bones. The time is ripe to show XH this type of slightly teasing physicality while continuing sweet touches. I think he is really hungry for genuinely affectionate and generous touching,……not touching that comes from a place of need (i.e. needy woman). I just received the book “Mr. Mean: Saving Your Relationship from the Irritable Male Syndrome” (by Jed Diamond) in the mail yesterday. Jody recommended it. IT IS REALLY AN EXCELLENT BOOK!!!! The way he explains men’s need for touch and affection has helped me to understand this concept better.

You have to ask yourself......can you live with Mr. GAG in a reconciled R or M if he never fully acknowledges how insane he was acting or how much pain he caused???

Excellent question!!!!! This is a definite possibility. Thanks to you, Sanderika, and Rabbit for reminding me not to have expectations. I like Rabbit’s explanation of what happened with her and Mr. Rabbit (below).

Mr Rabbit has been back in the fold now for nearly a year, and now I can lead him to answer questions I need to hear.. like he missed me, he could have done things differently and there is a little healing in that but its not easy to do without sounding like needy rabbit again!

The next step of intimacy for a man is physical.....He may not be able to open up anymore until there is a physical connection with you again.....Once that happens the flood gates may open........that will be the real test for you......meaning there will be a lot more "TONGUE BITING" on your part.[quote]
YOU ARE REALLY SPOT ON HERE. This is how it happened the first time. XH was a little standoffish and irritable then too (maybe he was in MLC already back then?), complaining about his business partner and his employees. After our first kiss his persona changed dramatically and stayed that way for 5 years.

[quote=Sanderika] XH is thinking about you as more than TT partner and thinking about you when not with you!!!

Sanderika, thank you for this observation. Receiving this feedback from more than one observer really made me realize that this is really what’s happening.

He knows you love X-MIL very much and he will need to lean on you. This will be a very difficult time for him. . you should have the expectation that XH will be moody. It's up to you to "be there" in mind and body for him…....be there and listen and validate and share some tender moments about her from the past and even laugh about stories and things she has done. It will be good for both of you.

I was actually surprised at how much he opened up with me about his deep thoughts and feelings on this topic. He actually told me a couple intimate details about his sister’s M problems, expressed concern about financial issues re: his mother’s estate, and said he was annoyed that when X-SIL comes to visit from out of state, she doesn’t seem to want to spend time with their mother. Then the next day, XH’s sister phoned me to ask how XH is doing and if I have any insight into his recent gloomy temperament. I felt like I’d stepped into a minefield. This family dynamic existed before I met XH, but the mind-reading and indirect communication between adult children of an alcoholic parent (XH and X-SIL) is something I’m having trouble negotiating now that X-SIL and I have become much closer since the bomb. I ended up telling X-SIL that I was seeing indirect communication between her and XH and asked when was the last time they sat down face-to-face to have a real talk about what they’re going through. She said that they hadn’t REALLY communicated for some time.

Sexual Intimacy is a Love Language for most men...BUT, I would hesitate to rush XH into a physical more intimate situation at the moment. I think it would be better to work a while longer at having fun together and "lure" him slowly with your charm and unconditional love and support. I would rather it be a mutual decision that was made after a solid reconnection is in place and where there is more contact during the week, not just for TT.

This ^^^^^^^^^ is gold I think. I know this perspective comes from your experience with H and has merit. The question this poses for me is how do I reconcile this ^^^^ with the insightful masculine perspective offered by Missher? Truly, at this point I don’t feel ready for “advanced TT lessons”, but I think the flirting has really helped to move our sitch forward. I think the right approach for us is in the middle somewhere. Jed Diamond spells this out in the last chapter of his book “Mr. Mean.......” (referenced above).He says the dance of love should progress in these stages: (1)acquaintanceship, (2) companionship: relating to someone in a group or can be done with several partners, (3) friendship: the process of being with another and enjoying getting closer to ourselves and to them, (4) intimate friendship: intimate friends hold up a mirror to each other showing us what has been hidden and forbidden. It is about learning to love and accept the “unacceptable” in ourselves and the other person, (5) sensual friendship: most of us are touch starved. We never got enough touching in life. Many of us rush into sex looking for the skin contact we never got. Sensual friendship is not a prelude to sex. It is its own dance. In it we relearn to hold hands and rekindle the heat of touching someone we have gotten to know. We caress hair, shoulders, legs, buttocks, knees and toes, (6) $exual/creative lovers: recognizes that the purpose of $ex is pleasure, creation, and bonding. Each act of love creates a bond with our partner and has the potential to create new life – whether the life is a child, a poem, a dance, or an affirmation of the rebirth of the spirit, and (7) spiritual/life partners: this recognizes that the goal of spiritual/life partnership is not happiness, but the spiritual development of each of the partners and the growth of the partnership itself. I think that at this point I need to aim for dance #4 and #5 with XH.

I would continue with the warm hugs and little kisses. Sweet comments are always a great idea. Make XH feel worth and desired when with you.

Good advice.

Just a thought, Mr GAG will never admit he was wrong or understands why or what he did! So no expectations on every hearing those freely given, but IMHO him saying what he'd said to his sister gave him the opportunity to say maybe he was wrong and although he wont say it word for word he was showing you maybe he knows!

Rabbit, this ^^^^^^^ is brilliant!!!! I hadn’t considered that.

Him asking to go the restaurant with you is a biggy, he effectively asked you to go on the date you mentioned!

I hadn’t thought of this ^^^^ this way either! Your perspective means a lot to me Rabbit since you are piecing and have the benefit of hindsight.

Dates of all sorts.. we need to find other ways to lure him out, obviously TT is good but as you said its getting predicatable, your bending over table move is good once or twice but H is gonna think over time not that old one again lol!

I understand your warning about cake eating. Regarding $exual contact as cake-eating, I think that enough time has passed since the bomb, that I am hoping we can develop our new R as a distinct new R. I would like to lay the foundation with for a good R before that happens, if it ever happens. In my mind, cake-eating would be if XH treated me just as a casual friend. I am prepared to walk if he does that.

Making him feel special is really really really key, I cant emphasize this enough.

You and Sanderika are on the same page with this. I will work on this!

GAG