just some thoughts from B

[AntoniaB]

Yeah I think we're all probably saying the same thing just in different words/expressions.

It's funny how everything sort of reverses in time or switches place. All that time we were together--even in the past few years--I was so sure things were terrific. I guess you learn to ignore things or deny if the alternative--confronting the problems--is a big threat to your security. Now I'm kind of glad to have woken up to my OWN problems. And to our joint problems, because frankly, any future rel. I have will be VERY different than our marriage. I'm thinking that he's now in the place that I was--that denial. Because as long as you're in denial, you can avoid working on yourself. It's a seductive place to be, but I am glad that I got forced into dealing with myself finally because I am SO much stronger for it.

[beatrice]

That is very true, but don't let yourself deny that many things were terrific. They wouldn't have stayed for such a long time otherwise.

Yes, they like to say that the marriage was always terrible, but that is their justification for running. I now get dreams about the sweetness . . . . And now my h has no consistent story on the story of the marriage. The thing that sounded the closest to both our realities is that it was a happy marriage, but he was unhhppy.

And as we know, that is not actually the responsibility of the other person. It is weakminded to think that another 'makes' you happy or unhappy. As far as I can see the poor man is now managing unhappiness more or less on his own.

[Augtan]

I just want to tell you all that I appreciate you sharing all this and all your thoughts. I guess, as weird as it is, it makes me feel better to know that all the things my XH said have been said by so many others H or XH's on here, verbatim. It is like a script they read from, it is spooky to me at times.

I am studying Abnormal Psy right now, the chaper I am reading in the textbook is discussing how when a person has a severe trama in their childhood (their example is the death of a parent, which my XH's mom died when he was 8 yrs. old), it is almost a guarantee that when this child is an adult they will have some mental illness, most commonly depression. Now, of course, there are exceptions to this rule and that is all laid out too, and they talk about other triggers that will cause it, such as a parent leaving, never attaching to a parent even if they are present, a parent with an addiction, etc. My XH had almost all of those things happen to him. And, although they don't use the term "mid-life crisis" the describe it to a "T" and say that is what happpens to a large majority of people who go through one of the above mentioned triggers. But, how these people handle their issues or what we call "MLC" is not the same but very much relates to how severe the event of the childhood was and how it was handled when it was going on. We all know all this, but it was so reassuring to read it in a textbook.

I knew about my XH's past and all he went though, but had no idea it would end up with him doing what he has done, as I am sure none of on here thought this would happen to us. I pray daily for my XH and for God to take his pain away and heal his heart, let us love him the way he deserves and needs to be loved, because he has been through enough and I just want him to have peace and love in his life. I can't do anything else to convince him or help him, but I can pray for God to do the things I can't. I don't excuse what my XH has done or think that because he had a bad childhood he has every right to do what he has done, but it is the reason, just not an excuse.

A

[Lorie1964]

I am studying Abnormal Psy right now, the chaper I am reading in the textbook is discussing how when a person has a severe trama in their childhood (their example is the death of a parent, which my XH's mom died when he was 8 yrs. old), it is almost a guarantee that when this child is an adult they will have some mental illness, most commonly depression. Now, of course, there are exceptions to this rule and that is all laid out too, and they talk about other triggers that will cause it, such as a parent leaving, never attaching to a parent even if they are present, a parent with an addiction, etc. My XH had almost all of those things happen to him. And, although they don't use the term "mid-life crisis" the describe it to a "T" and say that is what happpens to a large majority of people who go through one of the above mentioned triggers. But, how these people handle their issues or what we call "MLC" is not the same but very much relates to how severe the event of the childhood was and how it was handled when it was going on. We all know all this, but it was so reassuring to read it in a textbook.

Here lies the problem with my H, he never really had any childhood traumas. I just wonder if he is a WAS and not in MLC. But he does many of the MLC things, such as rewrite our history.

I am so confused.

[irishblessings]

Lorie -
I've asked myself the same question. I recently read the book "Runaway Husbands" and it hit dead-on a lot of the qualities. But I think you can find overlapping qualities! Or should I say "symptoms"!
IB

[Queen_of_Swords]

Don't be so sure there wasn't abuse.
I have seen horrible abusive things said to children in a perfectly normal voice.
There are 20 types of abuse and he may have seen, known or experienced some of them.

They are:
Emotional Abuse - any communication, admonition, reprimand or reproof that does not uplift or edify. Put downs,name calling,conditional love,extreme controlling behaviour, mentally coercive behaviour,mind games and loss of identity.
Male Priviledge: Treats partner as a servant, makes all the big decisions,acts like master of the castle ( has an Archie Bunker chair)
Abuse of Power: Denies basic rights,Deprives people of personal time,mandates duties, uses legal means to force power,controls everything...even amount of bathwater. what can be eaten, what clothing is worn, style of hair.
Stalking: Spies, follows partner, displays extreme distrust and jealousy,makes persistant phone calls, writes messages and leaves them on windshields, mailboxes,cards, sends harassing letters, faxes. writes graffiti,sends unwanted gifts,comes home at unexpected times, monitors phone calls with answering machine, forces partner to carry a pager, installs surveillance systems and bugs phones.
Sexual Abuse: Demands bizarre or unwanted sex acts, physically attacks sexual parts partner's body,threatens to find another partner, forces sex/rape or marital rape, extremely jealous, looks at pornography,treats partner as a sex object,interrupts partner's sleep for sex.
Verbal Abuse:Curses, accuses,name calls,uses the past to control,manipulates,makes unreasonable demands, commits mental blackmail.
Property Violence: Destruction of property, puts holes in walls, breaks down doors, pounds table, includes abuse of or killing the family pet.
Threats: Threatens to end the relationship,do harm emotionally or physically, partner's life, suicide,to take children. Will report to authorities after forcing partner to break the law ( selling drugs, prostitution,stealing, writing bad checks,using someone else's credit card. Defruading welfare, Social Security, IRS,disability insurance. Threatens to not financially support partner.Threatens sexual assault.
Intimidation: Threatens partner with looks, gestures, tone of voice, actions, cursing, continual arguing,makes partner say what he wants them to say, forces partner to listen to them,forces partner to report to him.
Jealousy: uses jealousy as a sign of love,controls what partner does,who they see and talk to, where and when they go out, refuses to let partner join in any activity outside the home. Drops in to "watch", isolates partner from friends and family, is possessive of partner in every area of their life.
Knowledge Abuse: recieves limited amount of counselling and uses it against their partner. Uses knowledge of partners past against them and or turns partners family against them using information about the past. Reads and listens to self help books and tapes, then uses that informatioon to blame the partner for problems in the relationship. Uses their higher level of knowledge or intellect to verbally or emotionaly abuse the partner.
Using Children: Uses visitation as a way to harass, threatens children, uses child support as leverage,teenage children may be used to take responsibility for finances,obligations, responsibilites and feelings. Intimidates through looks, actions, gestures and tone of voice, cursing to cause fear in partner and children.
Humiliation: Criticizes,discounts partners: childcare,housekeeping , cooking, self worth. Forces partner to eat things they don't want, or to dress to please them. Puts partner down then demands sexual intimacy.Uses hostile humour,publically humilates partner,moves frequently, forces partner to stay in the home.
Isolation: Controls who is seen,what is done. listens to phone conversations,requires partner to use a cell phone or pager,keeps partner from family,needs to know where partner is at all times,requires partner to be available at all times. Leaves no means of transportation.Does not allow partner to open the mail,moves frequently, requires partner to stay in the home.
Responsibility Abuse: Makes partner responsible for everything in life ( bills, children, etc.) Makes partner responsible for THEIR life, makes others responsible for their wrongful actions.
Religious Abuse: Uses scripture and words like "submission" and "obey" to abuse. Uses spiritual language and misuses position of power or leadership to influence the selfish interest of someone other than the person who needs help. Uses spiritual intimidation, manipulation or excessive discipline by abusing religious systems and being legalistic,mind controlling, religiously addictive,and authoritarian. Manipulates through shame,guilt,and fear, misuses position and makes the other live up to "spiritual standard"
Silent Abuse: Uses silence as a weapon,cannot or will not communicate, lacks mechanisms to express emotions.
Medical Abuse: Meets someone with pre-existing medical conditions then prevents them from gettting their medical needs met. Creates damage or an injury that requires medical attention then prevents them from getting that need met. Gets angry at, puts down or denies the pain of the person with medical needs. Has medical knowledge and uses it to hurt or kill someone through medical procedures or medicine. Makes fun of or puts down partner with medical needs in private or in public. Has an affair because of partner's medical needs.
Financial Abuse: Ruins partner's credit,puts cars, home, recreational property in his name only. Spends partner's money, credit or savings to make them dependant. Ruins children's credit, gets credit cards in their names, Uses partners credit without their knowledge, spend partner's money instead of their own on outings such as dinner,movies, sporting events,shopping, or personal use. Spends partner's saving to make them dependant.
Economic Abuse: Restricts employment,makes partner ask for money,gives an allowance,takes partner's earned money,makes partner account for expenditure of every penny,interferes with partner's work( ie. hides the keys to transportation),does not pay the bills,hides or witholds financial resources,refuses to work and support the family.

[warriorshadow]

Hi Brook,


YOU INSPIRE US ALL and I think your thread is great!!!

I don't mean to hijack your thread but what Scylla

posted here made me think a little and so I want

to ask for forgiveness now.

WOW SCYLLA what a list!!! Thanks for sharing this and

could you let us know where you got that list? It looks

familiar and I can't remember where I might have seen it.

This should be a sticky somewhere.


Makes me think of an exercise that would be kind of helpful

post MLC if we end up with that chance!


This list could be printed out and each spouse could highlight

or list things they BELIEVE or PERCEIVE to be part of your

spouses Mother or Father before you were married. Then each

spouse could fill out a second one for their OWN MOM and DAD.


That would help each of us dig into what is lurking in the back

of our minds on what PERCEPTIONS each of us has of each others

family.

Would that be too painful for some?

Would it make the other spouse feel not worthy?

Seems to me the pain would be relatively minor

compared to the pain we have all endured here.

Hiding everything in the closet, isn't that

what ended up getting us here?

MLC was going to happen either way but what if the MLC'r

is going to come back and haunt again say after

the persons initial Quarter Life Crisis!! (When my

wife had her QLC, I had no clue about any of this.)

It would be helpful for those that are now

the LBS here that are experiencing their spouses

quarter life crisis now so they at least have

a heads up on what may happen if the MLC'r

comes back too soon?



To me, it would be important to find the underlying reasons

on how some of the fears and motivations began to haunt us

during a critical time in our own lives such as a MLC.

If we don't look into some of these childhood issues,

are we asking to go through this again at the next life

transition?

WS

[Queen_of_Swords]

I got this from the program I am doing. They have a website, but the mods of this BB don't allow posting of the link. So that's why I typed out the list.
I suggest it be made a sticky.
I also suggest that any of us here look at it and see what types of power and control WE used, without knowing it. Our spouses may have used other forms.
Marriage is a dance and even abusive marriages encourage dysfunctional and abusive behaviours in reaction on the part of the abused spouse, by the abuser. Note also some of the abuse is very , very subtle and not overt.

[dl443322]

I love all this exchanging of ideas on my thread. Sorry I wasnt here to join in.

Let me just explain to some that I never ever said one should not get angry. If anyone didnt going through this, I would be worried about them.

And in the beginning, angry I got and a whole host of other feelings, too.

And then, along the way, I was able to process those feelings.

I used them to grieve, to propel me forward, to learn and grow.

I always said I hated what my h has done. I never used MLC as a free pass for him. He is ultimately responsible for his actions. But through grwoth and understanding, I am able to still love my h.

I have forgiven him, for me. That was a necessary part of my journey.

I have written many times of the conversations between my h and I. And you can see without a doubt that something is broken in him. And it is because of this, that I have let him go with love and compassion.

His confusion and his choices do not have a bearing on how I live my life.

But, this is a man I have loved for 30 years. I know no other way than to pray for him and hope that he finds happiness and peace.

I continue to strive to learn and grow and live my life on my terms.

This is my story to write. He must write his own.

[beatrice]

Some/many children from unhappy, abusive and dysfunctional families do not recognise it. This is part of the problem. They do not want to see their family as in any way abnormal. If they can it is a very good sign imo.

Denial of everything is a big part of MLC. My husband's family were dysfunctional, and interestingly only his youngest sister sees it, but my h always refused to. "No better and no worse than ayone else's" was his mantra. I don't think he could bear the implications of examining his emotionally deprived childhood.

My children sometimes noted that their father could remember nothing from his childhood, and had no stories from it to tell them It is only now they are grown that they recognise how odd that was.

Sound familiar anyone?

There is a very good book called Silent Sons which details some of this.