Lighthouse lit till WAW comes out of fog.

[habitacker]

This has confused me. Everyone tells us to not try and show stuff like this to our wives, but everytime I watch or read something from MWD, she tells us to try and show it to them.

There is even success stories about doing this.

I know what I do is my choice, and nobody is telling me what to do, they are just giving the best advice, but when I see stuff like this I start thinking again.

Everytime I get set in my mind to be patient and ride it out, I come across something like this.

[mj144]

I hear ya. Maybe we can get a veteran to chime in on it. Not that my W would sit and watch it however...

[Denver_2010]

I'm not a vet on the board yet, but I think that it depends on the stage you are at in DBing. Habit, MJ, you guys, along with me, are in LRT. Our W's are not working on M. Therefore, showing them this stuff is pressuring and pursuing. If, when, we get them to that stage of working on M, then we can start sharing with them things that help BUILD the M.

Now, can a true vet weight in on this?

[sandi2]

This has confused me. Everyone tells us to not try and show stuff like this to our wives, but everytime I watch or read something from MWD, she tells us to try and show it to them.

I haven't seen those videos, but I know in reading Michele's DR book that she says things so nicely that it's often easy for me to miss the message.

This is what I have noticed during the time I've been on the board, I do not remember one newcomer who wasn't past the point of convincing the S to read or watch any material (which in her book, I think Michele says not to do if in the LRT), plus so many newcomers have a S who is having an A and isn't willing to end it.

From the VP of a WAW who was in an A, I believe it is pursuing to try to get your S to engage in any marital help, including MC, if they aren't willing to drop contact with OP. I think you hurt your own cause by insisting. But, I will also add...that's my opinion and what I've read here on the board.

One uses different techniques when in LRT than from when in Piecing. Maybe that is what seems confusing to some. I think what Denver said describes it well.

I'm not a vet on the board yet, but I think that it depends on the stage you are at in DBing. Habit, MJ, you guys, along with me, are in LRT. Our W's are not working on M. Therefore, showing them this stuff is pressuring and pursuing. If, when, we get them to that stage of working on M, then we can start sharing with them things that help BUILD the M.

If I had not been "warned" by the mods to watch how I say things to board members, then maybe I would have continued to miss something here. You'll notice dbmod says that we need to find solutions that will bring more love into the R? That has been a challenge for me. I can talk all day with a board member but at the end....have I actually given any ideas for a solution that will bring more love into his/her M? Tough, huh?

You see, I was a part of that group that talked tough love and boundaries, etc. I still believe it 100% and am not backing up on it. But after I began listening with a better pair of ears to what dbmod was trying to point out to us...then I saw what I wasn't doing. Yes, you can bust an A, you can expose to the whole world.....but will it save your M? That is why I may ask what is your goal? What's the most important matter of all? If it is respect or full transparency, etc.....then you may not have what it takes to DB and want to A bust instead. See what I mean? And before you go shouting out your boundaries to a WAS, you better be prepared to enforce the consequences if broken (and many discovered they couldn't do it).

We aren't all alike and what I experienced or how I think and do things may not work for the next person. That was brought to my attention by dbmod, also. I didn't like it much, but maybe I grew a little bit when I started thinking more about it. I used to get upset b/c I thought Michele should be tougher. Some former members even used the term "Little Bo Peep" for some DBing methods (or actions by the newcomer). I'll admit that I often thought it too. Some things are still "weak" behaviors to me personally....but that is "my" nature...doesn't mean everyone is exactly like me. So, what I'm trying to learn as I go forward is to realize that a newcomer has to know what they are willing and capable of doing. What their biggest desire is--and then try to help see if we can figure out what they can do to change things for them.

I read something that Bond wrote a few days ago. He was telling someone that nobody could tell them when it was time to move on or when they would know when it was time for anything.....only they would know that. He said that you just "know" when. I think that's pretty sound advice. It's not our job, or any one's, to push a person to do particular things that we might label as DBing.

Sorry about that! Must have been on my heart. Now, what was the question?

[habitacker]

I know trying to give WAW marriage fixing info is not recommended, I think I learned this on day one, but I just don't see anything happening.

I have become really patient, and have accepted that nothing is changing. Same day over and over, but it seems like things are slipping to the negative.

Tonight was the biggest change I have noticed in her, she was the coldest she has been since bomb day. I don't really have any specifics, I can just tell.

The everyday conversation at the dinner table is pretty much all we have each day, it was almost silent, only talked if she had to. This I noticed because usually, this is the time each day that is, almost, pre-bomb normal. Far from it tonight.

Also, she almost always at least says goodnight to me, even if it is fake. Not tonight.

I know there isn't anything big here that would show anyone what I am seeing, you have to be here, something is changing, and it doesn't seem good.

Maybe someone can tell me if this is what has affected her.

Last night I came home from work, got cleaned up, and went out. I told her a week ago that I had something I would be going to on this day. She asked what it was, and I remember I just chuckled a little and said, it's nothing. I guess I was trying to make it sound like I was embarrased of what I was doing as an excuse not to actually say what I was doing, I wanted her to be curious. I really just went to a gym.

Well, I went out, tried to make her curious, and gave her space all in the same night. Why do I feel I backslid somehow? Is this going out last night have anything to do with her pulling farther away tonight? I thought it was supposed to have the opposite effect?

I am just struggling because of absolutely no change. I have never backslid that I know of. We have not had one word about R or M. As for my anger issue, it hasn't been a issue. I have been a great father, I play with the kids everynight from dinner until bedtime while she is wherever she is at, as long as it isn't the same room as me. Now, I try and go out, and it seems to make things worse.

I have made the changes, I do not pursue, I leave her alone, and have been amazingly patient.

I have not uttered one word about R or M for about 3 months, and either has she. How many LBH can say that? Isn't this what I am supposed to be doing?

It is frustrating to see everyone on here talk,talk,talk, to their WAW's about their R. I thought we were supposed to shut up and leave them alone. Am I the only one doing it right? or am I the only one doing it wrong?

Sorry,I am just frustrated, I really wish I could put all my faith in god, because I know he is the only one that is going to be able to bring my wife back.

Trying to put all my faith in God also gets me frustrated, because I get mad at myself because I can't find a way to have complete faith in him.

God, please shine your light to bring everyone's WAS's out of the fog.

[MrBond]

My W dropped the bomb nearly 3 years ago. Has she talked about our M or R? No. So there I said it.

Release your expectations. She will open up when she WANTS to. Not because you want her to. they are her feelings so you need to acknowledge that.

You continue to say that her greetings might be "fake". That's your interpretation. You don't know why she says or does what she's doing any more than she can figure out why you're doing what you're doing. Mind reading.

You're going out for you not for her. So why are you "expecting" a response? The first thing you need to realize is that there's a reason why it's called a rollercoaster. The WAS will be on a constant up and down wave of emotions. The key is to not get caught up in them whether they are good or bad. You stay consistent. There will be times where she will be nice and the W of old, then 10 minutes later, something will happen to set her off.

It's NOT your fault. They are her issues. You have a choice. You either ride on the rollercoaster with her and get dragged along for the ride, or you step out of it and let her ride it alone. When you do the latter, you get to see the whole picture rather than the drama.

Also, that part about God. You don't put the faith that God will get you our W back. You TRUST Him to show you the path that is the right one. It is still your W's decision to determine what path she needs to take.

[Spirit]

Habit,
it's easy to get frustrated and question god. I feel I've come along way in this whirlwind the past 1 1/2 years but we all get those feelings or thoughts.
Bonds messages keep me grounded that what im doing is right. My wife is no longer at home so i'm getting a life. Does it feel normal? No this is tough stuff.
Hang in there. I know you see no progress and its frustrating. Take it from a former MLCer. Do not read into what she is doing. You cannot understand it unless you've been there. Let her take her journey and you take yours wherever that may lead.

[ScaredinCanada]

I know trying to give WAW marriage fixing info is not recommended, I think I learned this on day one, but I just don't see anything happening.

I have become really patient, and have accepted that nothing is changing. Same day over and over, but it seems like things are slipping to the negative.

Tonight was the biggest change I have noticed in her, she was the coldest she has been since bomb day. I don't really have any specifics, I can just tell.

The everyday conversation at the dinner table is pretty much all we have each day, it was almost silent, only talked if she had to. This I noticed because usually, this is the time each day that is, almost, pre-bomb normal. Far from it tonight.

Also, she almost always at least says goodnight to me, even if it is fake. Not tonight.

I know there isn't anything big here that would show anyone what I am seeing, you have to be here, something is changing, and it doesn't seem good.

Maybe someone can tell me if this is what has affected her.

Last night I came home from work, got cleaned up, and went out. I told her a week ago that I had something I would be going to on this day. She asked what it was, and I remember I just chuckled a little and said, it's nothing. I guess I was trying to make it sound like I was embarrased of what I was doing as an excuse not to actually say what I was doing, I wanted her to be curious. I really just went to a gym.

Well, I went out, tried to make her curious, and gave her space all in the same night. Why do I feel I backslid somehow? Is this going out last night have anything to do with her pulling farther away tonight? I thought it was supposed to have the opposite effect?

I am just struggling because of absolutely no change. I have never backslid that I know of. We have not had one word about R or M. As for my anger issue, it hasn't been a issue. I have been a great father, I play with the kids everynight from dinner until bedtime while she is wherever she is at, as long as it isn't the same room as me. Now, I try and go out, and it seems to make things worse.

I have made the changes, I do not pursue, I leave her alone, and have been amazingly patient.

I have not uttered one word about R or M for about 3 months, and either has she. How many LBH can say that? Isn't this what I am supposed to be doing?

It is frustrating to see everyone on here talk,talk,talk, to their WAW's about their R. I thought we were supposed to shut up and leave them alone. Am I the only one doing it right? or am I the only one doing it wrong?

Sorry,I am just frustrated, I really wish I could put all my faith in god, because I know he is the only one that is going to be able to bring my wife back.

Trying to put all my faith in God also gets me frustrated, because I get mad at myself because I can't find a way to have complete faith in him.

God, please shine your light to bring everyone's WAS's out of the fog.

Habit,

My W doesn't even say good night to me, hasn't in a long time. I think some of those things (if they do them or don't do them) maybe more of a routine thing and aren't necessarily an emotional predictor.

I worry as well about detaching and not bringing up the R on occasion because I start to get the feeling that she believes were finally getting on the same page - that seperation or divorce is the answer. She wants us to live civil, and act like business partners until summer comes and we can sell the house.

Regardless I just need to realize that gives me 3 or 4 months to continue to work on me because I know nothing in situation is going to get any worse until at least then. I think at times this gives me the confidence to "temperature check" the sitch from time to time.

It's funny, she's always wanted to buy a hobby farm. We've tried on a number of occasions but we just couldn't afford it. I just mentioned to her that once we got the kids to bed we could go on MLS and have a look at farms (thinking it might a positive suggestion), but of course she just rolled her eyes at me.

She then says, "You keep changing, 1 day I feel like you hate, and the next day you want to be with me more than ever". I told her my position has never changed, yes I've had some tough moments were my emotions have gotten the best of me but in the end I just want to know that I did everything I could to be the best person, father and husband that I can be.

I guess I just need to be more consistant.

Habit, so she does talk to me at times - even about the R, but it's almost never good because EVERY memory she has of "US" is a bad memory. Go figure.

Keep going, we can do this - I've got your back!

BITS
SIC

[habitacker]

MrBond, I have no idea what you mean by rollercoaster. My W has been exactly the same, day after day after day. If you could watch a replay of everyday for the last 4 months, you could not tell the difference in any of them, other than she changed her clothes. This is why I noticed the change last night.

I do not go out for me. I don't want to go out. I want to be at home with my family. The only reason I went out was to try and change things up a little, give her the house to herself. Something has to happen sometime. I know 4 months is not that long of a time, but I think there needs to be some kind of steps made forward, doesn't there? Some baby steps?

Well anyway, the changes I saw last night, and now this morning she is also cold, are the first changes I have seen, ever. So I come here to ask about it and I just get the same answers I always do, it is just my expectations. Bulls**t. I had none. No offense.

[Troy999]

Habit:
I have read your sitch and I have been going through this for 6 months. No affair, wife is in MLC. You have detached physically but you have to detach emotionally from her-hard to do I know but time helps. Also, try taking advil pm or some other otc sleep aid, you will be amazed how much better you can feel with a good 6-7 hours of sleep each night. I took it every night for 2 months and have not taken since because my body adjusted to getting sleep each night. No sleep, high stress and emotions are not going to help this at all.
I would also recommend getting the kids and going out of town for a few days without her. I have done this a few times and it makes a big difference. She needs to know what it feels like to be in an empty house since she is going to feel like this half the time if she gets her divorce.