Big talk tonight. I am a wreck, need support.

[hope2011]

Denver, I appreciate your honesty, I know you're telling me all this with great intentions. But wow, my heart just hit the floor!

You might be on to something in some ways.

H is in sales, mortgage sales / banking. It's all about ego. Yes, he's about bigger, better, nicer stuff than his friends. Or rather, he used to be before the market crashed. His entire world has collapsed in the past 3 years. He's said many times that "losing it all made me appreciate everything more", jokes about his old days of driving really expensive cars. We live in a nice house (barely holding on it) in a very nice neighborhood. It's keeping up with the Joneses on steroids here. Most of his old friends have drifted away - they still have money. I guess it makes it uncomfortable for them. He finally gave up the golf club membership last month. We've never been able to afford to keep it up but I never really bugged him about it because golf was his only outlet. But yes, that's the lifestyle. Money, power, stuff. Now he's having to find himself again after losing it all but still being surrounded by other people who are enjoying the lifestyle he's lost. He used to pride himself on having the coolest, newest toys. The nicest car. His self worth was wrapped up in what he owned.... I figured that out after we got married and watch the confident man I fell in love with turn into this guy. His ego is very bruised.

No, I never felt like a trophy wife. I'm attractive but I've always thought the 2nd wife was prettier than me (not in a jealous way though, honestly). I honestly felt not good enough more because I made so little money compared to the other 2 wives. I am younger than the other 2. There is 6 years in age difference between H and I, while the first 2 wives were his age. Of the women he msg'd on the dating site, only a couple were more attractive than me or younger than him or made a lot of money. I thought the same thing you're thinking so I looked at that on all their profiles.

His 2 D's really didn't set well with me when we met. I did a lot of soul searching before our R got serious because I was afraid of a man who D'd 2 wives. I thought everything you posted above. His 1st W was his college sweetheart. They were together about 10 years. He left her because she's bipolar and valued friends more than family (hasn't talked to her mom in 10 years - that info per the boys). I'm not taking his word for it, I see it myself as we deal with her a lot because of the boys. She's is bipolar, immature, tells the boys things they shouldn't know at all or things blatently untrue to undermine the boys' respect for their dad, she's called the police when the boys don't answer their cell phones (they are teens). She's out of control unstable. Thankfully, her H is a good man who is great with the boys so we know they are ok with her. But I can see why my H left her... he tried, but enough was enough.

The 2nd wife was rich, pretty, fun... but a drunk. He begged her for a couple of years to stop drinking but she wouldn't. The final straw came when he shattered his ankle playing hockey and she wouldn't take him to the hospital for scheduled surgery and he had to ask a friend to take him. When he got home a few days later, they fought about and he hobbled upstairs to sleep in a different room. She was drunk, belligerent and pushed him down the stairs. He was done then. She tried to save the M but he was done. I learned all this from her best friend (W of H's best friend). She has a daughter the same age as the boys that my H helped raise for 6 years. It broke his heart to D her and lost his step-daughter.

Something I thought of last night that hadn't occurred to me before on why NOW H is going off the deep end (other than the slow decline of his former life)... in late November his XW #2's XH committed suicide. This was a guy part of his life for 6 years because of the step-daughter. In the same field, same age. He lost all his money too and just couldn't go on I guess. It hit H hard, really hard. He said this exact phrase "P's death is hitting me really hard". I tried to be supportive but I guess maybe I didn't see how hard it hit him. I've dealt with death a lot. H hasn't. Ever. 43 years old and he's never lost a close family member or friend. He struggled with whether he should reach out to his ex-step-daughter or not or attend the funeral or not. We talked about that a bit and decided it would be inappropriate for him to be at the funeral (the XW hasn't forgiven him for the D). Instead, he sent a card to his step-daughter, telling her what a great kid she is, how much her dad loved her and that if she ever needs anything or someone to talk to, he's here for her. She never responded. Understandable for a 15 yr old girl who just lost her dad. But H has taken it hard. We weren't sure how he died until last week... we heard rumors it was suicide but of course the obituary didn't say that. Last week the boys ran into the step-daughter's best friend who told that he did commit suicide. H was sad for his step-daughter. He sees her once in a while in the neighborhood (they live in the same development), but has no visitation with her, no phone calls, etc. The XW wouldn't allow it.

H has also said lately that he's seeing wrinkles and now he has gray hair. I think his own mortality has hit him. I think this could be a MLC but I don't want to jump to conclusions there. He was working out more in December and early January(when he was on the dating site). He hasn't worked out in the past week. I'm relieved at that... gives me a bit of hope he's not trying to buff up for a new woman. He's not changed his hair or shaved off his mustache. He's not dressing different and can't afford a new sportscar.

What you said, Denver, about "checking out"... his exact words to me when we talked about the dating site. That he "checked out and was done with the marriage" and that's why he joined the site. So when I read what you wrote, it hit me hard.

What I don't understand is how we seemed happy over Christmas when he was "checked out". We ML, we laughed, we had fun, we talked a lot. I thought we were getting closer. How could I have been so wrong? The whole time he was on the dating site. So how do I trust my instincts now? How do I trust his behavior now? How do I believe his e-mail last week that he loves me, only me and doesn't want a divorce and not feel like maybe it's not true? And if this is all about ego... how do I fight that?

Question for you, Denver, on your R.... how do you know that you want your W back because of her and not because your ego is hurt from her leaving you?

[hope2011]

H made it home, gave me a quick peck as he walked in the door. I've given him space to do some work before the event tonight. He's pleasant, positive and planning on going. This is the first event in 3 months he's gone with me to. Including weddings, NYE, work events, etc. The first time out of probably the last 12 times (in the past 3 months) I've asked him to be somewhere to support me / help me. And on top of it, he's not thrown work in my face, made me feel bad for asking or acting like it's an annoyance to him. I hope I'm not reading too much into it. But it means the world to me that he cared enough to reschedule work meetings, drive 7 hours and then go to an event with me. Even before the bomb he wouldn't have done this.

I just hope and pray this is a good thing. That he's trying. I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Denver_2010]

Just read your response Hope. I will have to respond later as I don't have any time right now. Remind me if you don't see something by tomorrow.

[wanda15]

Keep staying positive hope2011. I hope you hace a good time. Remember to enjoy the little things. Let us know how things worked out for you!

[MrBond]

This is a good thing, but be sure to remain cautiously optimistic. The mood swings will continue. Just have fun and live in the moment.

[Sad_but_happy]

Hope,

Sounds like you're doing wonderfully. You are where I was a month ago. W and I don't fight and we are starting to have more fun. She is warming up more and more. Things are going well. To be honest she was only cold when I persued. After I stopped things really got better. Sounds the same for you. Keep it up.

The fact that he did all that to make your event tonight shows how much he does care about you. When I was checked out of my M my W would say things like:

Q: "Why won't you talk longer on the phone with me?"
A: "We see each other all the time. What is there to talk about?"

Q: "I can't wait to go on business trips with you when kids are older."
A: "You really want to go ob business trips?"

Q: "I can't wait until we retire and we can travel to Europe."
A: "I can't think that far ahead."

So I can now see how much those words hurt her. But then I didn't see it. I really didn't. I NEVER meant to hurt her. That's why you need to not only listen but also respond with a sence of concern for HER wants and HER dreams and HER desires. I believe he would not have moved his entire schedule if he didn't care. I know I wouldn't have...


I wanted to take some time out to answer your question about a mans ego...

Yes, ego plays a roll in a mans reaction to OM. Much like cavemen clubbing a woman over the head and dragging her into his cave by the hair, we believe our women are OURS! They belong to US. And when OM tries to take her away (our perception of it) we suddenly want to keep our posessions and fight to do so. Some threaten the OM, write letters to the OM, tell the OM's W, some even kill OM. We think to ourselves, "does OM not see the ring on W finger? What's his problem?" There IS more to it then that but from an animal perspective I believe that is our first INSTINCT.

Keep doing what you're doing Hope. And have fun tonight.

[lostinscared]

Hope,

Will you do me a favor? Will you change your signature? I really hate seeing you define what's going on right now by the fact that he joined a dating site. I cannot believe how well that you are doing!!!! You deserve to take that off of your signature. It just reminds you and everyone else of the hurt and you deserve to be moving towards the healing.

His mood is going to be like this for awhile. You should always be monitoring and that's good that you are, but you are allowed to be happy when a good thing happens. You need to allow that for yourself. If you do not, if you are constantly looking behind your back for the next blow, you are never going to relax enough to enjoy yourself. If you cannot relax, he won't relax, tension remains.

You need to be so proud of yourself and how far you've come. You really need to allow yourself to feel that. I am so praying for you. I hope that you have a fantastic night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LIS

[2stepboogie]

"Question for you, Denver, on your R.... how do you know that you want your W back because of her and not because your ego is hurt from her leaving you?"

What a great question! I actually started asking myself this question today. Truth is the fear she has shared with me are the same fears I have can we trust again?

Can I trust her?

Can I forgive her for causing this pain?

Can I look at her again and feel anything?

If she does come back will she leave again?

What if I do all the wrong things? Will she leave again?
What if she comes back and I am the one that checks out because of the resentment that would develop?

I asked myself these questions today. Truth is I have no idea but I believe it is a risk worth taking. I suppose if she has had an opportunity to reflect and see things my way the same way I have tried to look at the situation her way that would be called progress. I suppose I could not fully answer that until I have healed completely.

One thing is for certain, I feel and see things differently today than I did a few months ago. I am sure some of my BITS brothers would agree with that statement. We have grown because of this that was our step in the right direction.

[hope2011]

Thanks everyone!

Just a quick response as H thinks I'm a workaholic so one of my 180's is to be off-line at night. So I'll catch up in the morning!

But SBH... no OM here. I see you and my H respond the same way to Q&A.

Event went ok. We only stayed an hour as he was really tired, so I suggested we leave early. I actually knew some other people there so it was nice to introduce them to H and let him see I'm not such a hermit after all. He was polite, kind through the whole thing. Even reached for my hand in the car on the way home. That's all positive.

But he feels a million miles away. I hope he's just tired.

[Denver_2010]

Denver, I appreciate your honesty, I know you're telling me all this with great intentions. But wow, my heart just hit the floor!

Sorry. I was giving you my honest assessment.

You might be on to something in some ways.

H is in sales, mortgage sales / banking. It's all about ego. Yes, he's about bigger, better, nicer stuff than his friends. Or rather, he used to be before the market crashed. His entire world has collapsed in the past 3 years. He's said many times that "losing it all made me appreciate everything more", jokes about his old days of driving really expensive cars. We live in a nice house (barely holding on it) in a very nice neighborhood. It's keeping up with the Joneses on steroids here. Most of his old friends have drifted away - they still have money. I guess it makes it uncomfortable for them. He finally gave up the golf club membership last month. We've never been able to afford to keep it up but I never really bugged him about it because golf was his only outlet. But yes, that's the lifestyle. Money, power, stuff. Now he's having to find himself again after losing it all but still being surrounded by other people who are enjoying the lifestyle he's lost. He used to pride himself on having the coolest, newest toys. The nicest car. His self worth was wrapped up in what he owned.... I figured that out after we got married and watch the confident man I fell in love with turn into this guy. His ego is very bruised.

Sounds to me like this is the crux of your issue.

H has also said lately that he's seeing wrinkles and now he has gray hair. I think his own mortality has hit him. I think this could be a MLC but I don't want to jump to conclusions there. He was working out more in December and early January(when he was on the dating site). He hasn't worked out in the past week. I'm relieved at that... gives me a bit of hope he's not trying to buff up for a new woman. He's not changed his hair or shaved off his mustache. He's not dressing different and can't afford a new sportscar.

I don't know much about MLC bc I haven't read much about it bc doesn't apply to my sitch (at least I don't think it does). I'd go over to the MLC thread and see what JackThreeBeans and some of the other vets in that forum think.

What you said, Denver, about "checking out"... his exact words to me when we talked about the dating site. That he "checked out and was done with the marriage" and that's why he joined the site. So when I read what you wrote, it hit me hard.

Don't put too much into me saying those exact words. All of our WAS's have said something similar if not exactly the same. My point was, that if he is like I was, he is in a state where he has one foot out the door and one foot in. When he was on the dating sites, he was 'checked out', when he's being distant, he's 'checked out'... but you are also seeing the foot that is in the door... he's just confused in his head. Part of him wants to stay checked out of the M and the other part of him wants to be happy with you.

What I don't understand is how we seemed happy over Christmas when he was "checked out". We ML, we laughed, we had fun, we talked a lot. I thought we were getting closer. How could I have been so wrong? The whole time he was on the dating site. So how do I trust my instincts now? How do I trust his behavior now? How do I believe his e-mail last week that he loves me, only me and doesn't want a divorce and not feel like maybe it's not true? And if this is all about ego... how do I fight that?

You can't trust his behavior or words right now. IMO. See my answer immediately above. He is having an internal struggle. You are seeing both sides, and they are alternating. This is more a battle in his head than it is bw you and he.

How do you fight his ego? I'm really not sure Hope. You have to appeal to the part of him that wants to be happy with you and in M. That means continue to give him reasons to push that other part of him away. You can help his 'good' side in the battle by just not contributing to his doubt. It's like he has a devil on one shoulder (his ego) and an angel on the other (his true self). You have to provide weapons to the angel.

This is what my W did not know how to do. And again, I don't blame her. How could she. She is human and has never dealt with this before. But she fed the devil on my shoulder bc she became angry and distant, justifiably. I don't know if any of this is making sense or is applicable to you. Sorry if not.

Question for you, Denver, on your R.... how do you know that you want your W back because of her and not because your ego is hurt from her leaving you?

I think that, in part, it is. Like SBH said, we men all have some of that in us. But it is not the main reason. I want my W back bc I love her for just being who she is. Bc I can't imagine living my life without her in it. I can't imagine not working towards the dreams that we have had together. Bc I can't imagine not growing old with her. Bc I can't imagine putting our shared memories in a box someplace in the back of my mind. I can't imagine those memories losing importance in my life. Bc I can't imagine not making new shared memories with her. Bc I know how in love with her I felt when I knelt down and proposed to her while tears came down my face. And how in love with her I felt when she walked down the aisle and how she was the most beautiful woman I had EVER laid eyes on. How proud that I have been, even in bad times, that she was my W and I was her H.