Big talk tonight. I am a wreck, need support.

[Denver_2010]

Denver, I am so outnumbered by the guys here. I knew that going in so I'm ok with that. I am involved in their lives 110%, probably too much for the teenage boys. I'm at their games, offered to learn to keep score for them (in the end, they picked another dad to do it), know all about the H's work and help where I can, know the boys' friends, very involved with the in-laws when I can be (they live out of state). I am very family oriented - I want to be a part of their lives. I knew coming in that they already had a family dynamic of the 3 of them and I'd have to fit in with them. Trouble is, they never really embraced me. It's H's house, his stuff, his kids, his friends, his work, his hobbies. He tolerates my works, family, friends but never really embraced being in my life. After 2 years of marriage, I guess I accept that now. That I'll be alone a lot in my world and present in his and that he's never going to want to fully merge our lives, families, friends, work, etc. I only frustrate myself trying to change that. I instead focus on being in his life more... hoping he'll see it and come around into supporting me more. He does make more effort when I do this. Next time, I will go with them. If even to just sit in the stands reading a book. I can hit and play... they just don't want me to because I'm a "girl". I was the only girl on a boys' baseball team growing up - catcher no less. I used to be able to hold my own. May make a fool out of myself if I try now though. That was 25 yrs ago. Oh, now I feel old. But I will try. Keep trying.

Your H's attitudes and actions towards M remind me A LOT of mine until W left. And your attitudes and actions remind me of my W, until she got fed up and left. If I am correct, from personal experience, your H is going to have to have to decide that HE wants to change some things for the M to work.

How he gets there, I don't know. I've already explained how I got there. But I can tell you what did NOT work with me. And that was my W beginning to contribute to the downward spiral of M. As she grew unhappier and less satisfied with M bc of my attitude, her attitude changed. And it only made things worse in my head. She went from caring, sweet, appreciative, committed to success of M, to angry, distant, unappreciative, and uncaring. As this happened, I sat back blamed her and waited for her to 'get it' that her new attitude wasn't going to work. She 'got it' alright and left my a*s. Then I realized that I was the one who didn't 'get it'. Bottom line is that letting yourself become like my W did when she wasn't getting what she needed out of M most likely will not work with your H. In fact, it will only make things worse. So, you have two choices, 1) continue being a good W and figure out some other way to get him to want to change for sake of M, or 2) do what my W did.

I highly suggest #1 bc I believe that your H is capable of change. I just wish that I what advice to give you to get him there.

[Denver_2010]

Denver, I am so outnumbered by the guys here. I knew that going in so I'm ok with that. I am involved in their lives 110%, probably too much for the teenage boys. I'm at their games, offered to learn to keep score for them (in the end, they picked another dad to do it), know all about the H's work and help where I can, know the boys' friends, very involved with the in-laws when I can be (they live out of state). I am very family oriented - I want to be a part of their lives. I knew coming in that they already had a family dynamic of the 3 of them and I'd have to fit in with them. Trouble is, they never really embraced me. It's H's house, his stuff, his kids, his friends, his work, his hobbies. He tolerates my works, family, friends but never really embraced being in my life. After 2 years of marriage, I guess I accept that now. That I'll be alone a lot in my world and present in his and that he's never going to want to fully merge our lives, families, friends, work, etc. I only frustrate myself trying to change that. I instead focus on being in his life more... hoping he'll see it and come around into supporting me more. He does make more effort when I do this. Next time, I will go with them. If even to just sit in the stands reading a book. I can hit and play... they just don't want me to because I'm a "girl". I was the only girl on a boys' baseball team growing up - catcher no less. I used to be able to hold my own. May make a fool out of myself if I try now though. That was 25 yrs ago. Oh, now I feel old. But I will try. Keep trying.

Your H's attitudes and actions towards M remind me A LOT of mine until W left. And your attitudes and actions remind me of my W, until she got fed up and left. If I am correct, from personal experience, your H is going to have to have to decide that HE wants to change some things for the M to work.

How he gets there, I don't know. I've already explained how I got there. But I can tell you what did NOT work with me. And that was my W beginning to contribute to the downward spiral of M. As she grew unhappier and less satisfied with M bc of my attitude, her attitude changed. And it only made things worse in my head. She went from caring, sweet, appreciative, committed to success of M, to angry, distant, unappreciative, and uncaring. As this happened, I sat back blamed her and waited for her to 'get it' that her new attitude wasn't going to work. She 'got it' alright and left my a*s. Then I realized that I was the one who didn't 'get it'. Bottom line is that letting yourself become like my W did when she wasn't getting what she needed out of M most likely will not work with your H. In fact, it will only make things worse. So, you have two choices, 1) continue being a good W and figure out some other way to get him to want to change for sake of M, or 2) do what my W did.

I highly suggest #1 bc I believe that your H is capable of change. I just wish that I what advice to give you to get him there.

I just want to add that I don't blame my W for her contribution to the downward spiral to our M. Like many of us, she didn't know what else to do to get through to me. And she was unhappy. I wish that she had found this website, but that didn't happen. Sad really.

[hope2011]

Wanda, thank you. Hugs back to you.

Denver, that's what I'm afraid of. I feel myself resenting him more and more, not trusting him now, feeling lonely, unloved, little affection (very little - haven't been kissed in months), like I'm the only one trying at all and I don't matter to him. He's not trying, he's not changing. He is waiting for me to do all the work, to earn his love, to prove to him that I can change. I am changing... I am working hard... but it takes two.

Right now, he's driving to a business meeting out of state. He may be back tonight, or he may drive to the next state for another meeting tomorrow. Both meetings he has to have for work, I understand that. But he has no consideration at all for the fact that I'm having a hard time here. That it's been a week and my trust for him is shattered. He also was supposed to go with me to an event tomorrow night but now I'm ditched, again. This is something he's known about for weeks. When I said "oh, I was really looking forward to you going with me Thursday night to the event" (where I know NO ONE else!).... his response was "I have to work!". I feel like I don't matter at all to him. He's making no effort at all. He could reschedule, he could go to one meeting today and come home. He would do that, if he's too tired to drive to another state, if he wants to come home. But he won't do for it me. And he doesn't see at all that him gone overnight is a big deal for me right now. Of course I didn't say anything to him about the trust stuff, I'm trying to DB. But at what point will I matter at all? Just a little? He was going to take my car, but this morning said "it's too dirty, you never clean it" and took his truck - which will cost $100 more in gas. My car is dirty because he drives it with the boys all the time. It's not my mess. I didn't say anything, bit my tongue.

This is where we are at. It's like the e-mail exchange last week happened but didn't. He says we're together, but he's not working on the marriage. Those 3 sentences he said are just words if there are no actions behind them.

I love him, I do. I'm trying here. But I don't know if I'm dealing with a WAS, am piecing or what. I'm scared to have an R talk, I'm tip-toeing around him, I'm still in pieces every day. I'm afraid to ask him to work harder at this, be nicer to me, be there for me or anything at all really because I'm afraid I'll push him away again. But I also resent it more each day because I feel used, worthless, unloved in my own home by my own husband. I don't want to become a WAW.

[hope2011]

I think I may have messed up.

H called while driving a couple of hours ago. He decided to drive to the other state, come back tomorrow. He usually hates talking on the phone (even when we were dating or when talking to the boys) but he's bored driving 5 straight hours so didn't mind talking. He was in a good mood when he called, updated me on his work. He's always been good about talking to me about work stuff. He's always known he can talk to me about anything and I'm here. I always encourage his word, build up his self-esteem. He's in sales so he has to be in a good mind frame. So I wasn't surprised that he called. I almost didn't answer but I did. Try a 180 of not answering... but too worried he'd call someone else. It's only been a week since the dating site stuff. So he talks about work, then tells me he's driving on to the other state. Instead of getting quiet, agreeing with him or just trying to not upset him with me (my 180's for the past few weeks), I took a chance and said "I know you have to work, I know you have to meet with these people. You know I've always supported your career and help where I can. But I'm really disappointed that you won't be at the event tomorrow night. I feel unimportant to you when you don't take my job and my requests to heart. I'm trying really hard to be a better wife and make this marriage work but you have to meet me half way. So in the future when there are conflicting events, can we work harder on scheduling so that both of us feel supported?". He got quiet. Then he said "you know I have to work" in an upset tone and I felt us backsliding. I replied calmly "I know you have to work. I'm not ever going to hold back your career. I'm just asking that in times like this when you are able to control the meeting times and make your own schedule that we work more as a team to support both of us and make both of us happy". He said ok and that he could try to reschedule his meetings for earlier tomorrow or this evening and come home earlier to make the event with me. We talked a bit more about the R in that it has only been a week, I feel vulnerable trying so hard and then him going out of town. That I'm not being clingy but that I need him to regain my trust. I'm working on my issues, all my own past relationship ghosts and trying really hard to meet his needs and move forward together but he's got to be patient with me and he's got to meet me half way". He said ok. I changed the subject back to work because I didn't want to drown in R talk and he wasn't responding much so I didn't want to talk at him either. We left the conversation with "I love you", which I said first (he never says it first, not even to the boys - has always been that way). He said it back, which I guess is good and he said he'd call me later and let me know what hotel he's at.

I may have messed up really bad here. I may have pushed him away again.

Girl's night out with friends tonight, badly needed. Trying to GAL.

Need to figure out what to say when he calls, if I should answer. How to not get upset tomorrow when I have to go this event alone and stand around knowing no one. I am not an outgoing person. I tried to find a girlfriend to go with me, no luck.

[dixiegal]

Dont beat yourself up. He called and he did say that he would do so in the future. You also did back off when you caught yourself going there...

The good thing here is that he still at home and has not left yet. So, focus on what is going and your doing right.

I know its really hard. I'm in a worse boat...trust me. But, you are aware of your actions...thats a move in the right direction!

Think of the event as a way to push your self out of your shell! Ive been where you at...you have to force yourself to be happy at those things...sounds dumb..."Fake it till you make it!"

When he calls which he will, that good news. Just be happy and dont put any pressure "talk" on him. An when he asks or if he ask how your event went. Tell him, you really had a good time. You got to meet some fun fols and etc. and then drop it.

Hope that helps a bit....I'm not expert but, I wish I wouldve know what I know now when my H was still in our home. I now the outcome would have been so different.

[zengypsy]

Wow Hope - I have gotten caught up the best I can. That has been some rollercoaster ride.

You and your H seem to be moving a more positive direction; baby steps. Don't beat yourself up when you backslide a bit. We are all works in progress - never forget that. I think you are doing great and I congratulate you on your progress thus far. I wish I shared your luck.

I will post a new thread with some updates on my sitch do I don't hijack your thread. My only request is that you be on the lookout for it. I can really use some advice.

You are in my thoughts and prayers daily.

Peace - ZG

[2stepboogie]

Hey Hope I thought you did good but what do I know. I read your situation and it is very similar to a lot of the conversations my wife and I had. Some of the other guys have given good advice like Denver I thought he put it perfectly.

[hope2011]

Thank you everyone!!!

I went out with girlfriends last night. Really needed that! 2 of the 5 of us with WAS, 2 others dealt with WAS before. Good support system. And good laughs too. Made me do a lot of thinking, appreciate my situation more.

H didn't call last night. Probably because he knew I was going out. I texted him at 10 to make sure he got to the other state ok. He responded within seconds that he just got to his hotel, made it ok and had rescheduled his meetings and met with his sales guys for a late dinner instead of today. So he could drive home today and be with me at the event tonight. I said "Thank you so much, that really means a lot to me. I love you. Goodnight"... trying to keep it short, plus my cheap phone and texting don't mix well. His response "I love you too. Goodnight".

He should be home in the next hour or so. Hoping and praying he doesn't get cranky from being tired and decide not to go because then he'll get defensive. He's 80% there on doing something really, really sweet and selfless... I hope he'll go the last 20%. I'm not trying to be selfish, I know he'll be tired. It would just be really nice to feel like I matter to him.

My stomach is in knots. I'm ridiculously nervous about this!

[Denver_2010]

Be patient with him right now Hope. If he is cranky just be understanding and give him space if he needs it. Don't push. Not right now anyway.

[Denver_2010]

Denver, that's what I'm afraid of. I feel myself resenting him more and more, not trusting him now, feeling lonely, unloved, little affection (very little - haven't been kissed in months), like I'm the only one trying at all and I don't matter to him. He's not trying, he's not changing. He is waiting for me to do all the work, to earn his love, to prove to him that I can change. I am changing... I am working hard... but it takes two.

I feel like I don't matter at all to him. He's making no effort at all.

And he doesn't see at all that him gone overnight is a big deal for me right now. Of course I didn't say anything to him about the trust stuff, I'm trying to DB. But at what point will I matter at all? Just a little?

This is where we are at. It's like the e-mail exchange last week happened but didn't. He says we're together, but he's not working on the marriage. Those 3 sentences he said are just words if there are no actions behind them.

I love him, I do. I'm trying here. But I don't know if I'm dealing with a WAS, am piecing or what. I'm scared to have an R talk, I'm tip-toeing around him, I'm still in pieces every day. I'm afraid to ask him to work harder at this, be nicer to me, be there for me or anything at all really because I'm afraid I'll push him away again. But I also resent it more each day because I feel used, worthless, unloved in my own home by my own husband. I don't want to become a WAW.

Hope - I just saw this response to me. Ok, now I'm really convinced that your H is where I was with my W from end of Dec. 09 through Jan 10, and again from end of July 10 through Sept 10. This statement may scare you a bit so I apologize in advance... HE HAS CHECKED OUT OF YOUR M. He is mentally done with it...

But... He is also too afraid to trust his feelings of being done. He is too afraid to leave M bc there is also something in him that recognizes what he is giving up. He wonders, if he leaves you, will he be able to find "as good" or "better"...

He's not sure of the answer to that question...

So, he goes back and forth on what he wants, what to do... he has one foot out the door, and the other in the house with you.

I'm saying all of this to you Hope bc how you describe his actions and words hits home with me like you wouldn't believe. I'm not trying to make it worse. I hope that you believe that.

I still believe that he can make the right decision. Like I said, I felt the same way 2 different times within 1 year. I came around both times. Unfortunately, by the time I did the 2nd time my W had reached the end of her rope with me. My point is though, he can still come around. If/when that happens, the thing that you and H need to do that my W and I didn't is FIX THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM. So that it doesn't happen again.

For me, and I suspect your H as well, these feelings come from insecurity. Before my M, I did have long term relationships, but I also had long periods of being single. I loved to date. And when I was in long term Rs, I was always looking to see if I was missing something better. I'd say that all or most of that was based on sex though. I'd forget that "yeah, that woman is hot, but she's probably mentally insane!"... I'd just see 'hot'! It's insecurity... or maybe another way to put it... it's EGO. I had a very large EGO that controlled much of what I thought and did. I didn't recognize this until my current sitch with W. Now I'm trying to kill my Ego... or at least learn to control it. It literally ran my life Hope. I lost myself. It controlled my views on my Rs, it made me want to buy bigger and nicer things than my friends, made me want to appear that I had it all. This is ego.

Your H is on his third M. My guess is that he has much of the same issues that I do. He needs to feed his ego. This is hard to do when we are M'd. Bc feeding the ego or feeding our insecurities, for men, often includes showing the world that we can attract beautiful women. When we're M'd, even if to a stunningly beautiful woman like my W, that feeding of the ego diminishes. Our friends and family have seen our W over and over and over. The ego says, go out and show them that we can still do it. But we can't bc our W's are in the way! So we end up battling with our ego... and maybe beginning to resent our W's.

Did your H date a lot in his past? Was he into having nice things, money, power? Did ever make comments about others not having "as nice" of stuff? Did you, at any time, feel like a trophy W or that he was "showing you off"?

I have many more thoughts on this but will wait until you answer some of these questions and respond as to if you think that I am on to something here.

Denver