Am I piecing ? Just can't tell 3...

[MrBond]

I recommended Retrovaille only because it sounded like the two of you are concentrating just on each other and the sitch which could be very tiresome. It's a change of environment and also shows your W that she isn't alone in how she feels. It could validate her feelings and show her other options on how to cope.

Maybe you need something to inject some humor into the sitch. There's a woman named Bowman (you can google the name with marriage) who has a blog about marriage which is funny.

Point is you just need something to serve as a catalyst to make the R more fun and not just centering on needs.

[sandi2]

I sent a long reply this morning, but I don't see it. I don't know what happened.

[Sad_but_happy]

I'm hoping you will re-post Sandi.

I'd really like your perspectives on my questions.

[Sad_but_happy]

Update and question:

Flew in from FL to IL this morning. Texted W if she wanted to have lunch. She said "sure". I went to get food and we ate at her work. I greeted her with a hug and kiss.

When I was leaving we kissed but instead of a quick peck on the lips she seemed more relaxed. Her lips felt so soft for the first time. Of course I had no idea that she would be relaxed so I was quicker. Then we had a 10 second hug (we both squeezed) then a final kiss before I left.

My fear is she is just doing things to please me (am I mindreading here?).

I have to say it was very nice. Tonight is the first night were sleeping in the same bed in 6 nights.

Just don't want to make a wrong move...

[hope2011]

I read in "His Needs, Her Needs" that women that detach from an A or OM and become closer to their H rarely ever want to cheat again or go back to OM. It says that as long as they are getting their needs met that they can be completely satisfied and content.

WHILE MEN ON THE OTHER HAND...

Will or in many cases do/can return to the OW or another A even if they are getting their needs met because they MISS that conquest.

Can any of you women confirm or deny this from your perspective?

I don't think that's true. I've had female friends and relatives cheat repeatedly in R's. Mainly because they thought they could get away with it, they lost respect for their H's, they didn't really think they'd leave them (but of course, they did). I think a cheater will only not cheat again if he/she is afraid to lose something irreplaceable (ie a good marriage, lifestyle, income, etc). That's why boundaries are so important.

[sandi2]

First, about reading her the book, some people are better audio learners whereas others are visual. She may retain more information if she hears you reading. But the more important issue is her wanting to participate "with" you. Both of you are sharing at the same time and I think she is showing amazing cooperation by doing this.

Next, you vented out of frustation and depression....and that's okay to that here. The main thing about what you said that I wanted to focus on was when you wondered how she would react if you told her you weren't sure about the R or how you felt, etc. My take on that is she would probably be shaken up at the least....devastated at most. What type of emotions she might display right then is something we don't know. Panic, yes I'm sure she would, but I don't think she would try to prevent you from getting a D, IDK. It is certainly not worth the risk just to find out.

More importantly, SBH, that is not what you REALLY want from her. What you really want is for her to reassure you that she wants you above all else and that she's feeling those "in-love" feelings again.

I believe the reason she said it was her problem is b/c she feels that you are doing all that you know to do and the rest is up to her. She is putting pressure on herself (which only she can control that). Women are complicated people and all the ones I have ever known or read about are not able to fall in love "at will" or even stop loving "at will". However, (and I hope this doesn't seem contradicting), in a MR we can chose to love our S....and when we make that decision, the romantic/sexual/emotional "in-love" feelings will follow in time. Key words here are "in time".

Even in marriages that were arranged by the couple's families, they learned to love each other. From what I've read in these cases, they learned to respect one another and they became friends....then the love came. But it didn't happen in a few months. Since your W has been in love with you once...it only stands to reason that she will again. Right now, she's her own worst enemy.

I think the other thing I talked about was you trying to detach while piecing. Detaching is what one does in the LRT and the WAS will not agree to work on the MR. I don't think you need to detach while piecing, although, you may still need to give her space. Giving space and emotional detaching are two separate actions.

I know I've told this to somebody, but when I was a child, I would see the older women making quilts for a bed. They took pieces of materail and would hand stitch these pieces together and then carefully lay that piece on top of some sort of filler fabric....and then they had this large hoop looking contraption that would pull that quilt until it was good and tight. After that, they would sit around that big frame and each lady had a big, long quilting needle designed to go in and out...from under through to the top layer....making the more stiches to hold it all together. If you ever see a hand-made quilt, you'll know many, many hours were put into ever stitch. I hope you will look back over this analogy of piecing a quilt to piecing a MR and pick up on some of the words I purposely used. I've never read this from a book or anything, but it always made me think of the quilting process when I read about couples in "piecing".

You also said that you fear she is doing things b/c she knows that's what you want. Relax about that. That is what we do when we love the other person, don't we? SBH, she is cooperating, and the fact that she's even "trying" to do something b/c that's what you want her to do...is fantastic. I was not nearly as cooperative in my M. I wanted my H to stay on one end and me the other for several months, so I'd say progress is coming along very well in your piecing.

It's hard, and I know you keep hearing that...but some day the two of you will be able to relax and just enjoy each other.

[Sad_but_happy]

Sandi,
Thanks so much for writing that out a second time. Your words make so much sense and coming from the perspective of a woman, it's more reassuring.

As a man, I will never truly understand the mind and heart of a woman. You are so right when you say that women are complex. So having it come from you means more.

You know what's so odd sandi, I used to HATE that complexity. It can sometimes make things hard. But now not only do I embrase it, I appreciate it, I love it. The heart of a woman is so much deeper then that of a man. This process make you admire it so much more.

While we were reading "Surrendering to Marriage", she made a comment that she would like to read, "Surrendering to Motherhood" (that was a few weeks ago). Well, it came today from Amazon ($9.00). But more than a gift, that $9.00 will show her that I listened to her. That what she says has value and I wasn't just a bump on a log blowing it off. I will leave it under the covers for when she goes up to bed to read.

I won't lie to the posters here, I do have some anger that will need to be resolved at some point. But I have WAY more love then anger...

Everything happens for a reason... This was definately my 2x4 to my noggin... And obviously, my wife was swinging for the bleechers. lol.

Thanks again Sandi. I believe you helpped many of us men with that post.

[Harrier]

"The heart of a woman is so much deeper then that of a man. "

No offense, but that is BS. The thing I really dislike about MWD's approach is that she plays up sexual stereotypes. Women are complex. Guess what? So are men. People are complex and I think you do a diservice to yourself to think otherwise. I think you sell the process short by thinking men and women are sooo different. There are gender differences. No doubt.

The john grays of the world do more harm to men-women relations than help IMO

[Sad_but_happy]

I do not agree Harrier...

Give me peace and quiet, good beer, a great sports game, and great sex and I will be happy... I am not complex at all. And most of the men I know are the same.

Let me ask you something Harrier... Do you have to like a beautiful woman to have sex with her? Most honest men will say no, that they would have sex with her anyway...

Women don't feel the same. They are much more emotional and need more connection (which ties into their heart being deeper)... We have more physical needs then women... And realize that I'm talking in generalities. I understand that there ARE exceptions to the rule.

We are less emotional, less nurturing (in general)...

I think you are doing yourself a disservice by not realizing that men and women ARE sooo different.

BUT, we all have our opinions...

BTW, how is your sitch going Harrier?

[lostinscared]

I think that there are KEY differences, if you will. From a women's perspective, I believe that men can be complex. I have 5 brothers and a crazy H, they have their issues that definitely confuse me. Now, with that said, in a situation like this, I would rather be the woman than the man (again, in general). I say this because I think that someone would have an easier time predicting what the WAH would do given a set of circumstances than the WAW. I don't know, but that's my guess. Women tend more to live in their own little world. They see gaps and they tend to fill those gaps with their own assumptions. Meaning, I have had troubles with H for awhile, but instead of confronting those head-on, I just come up with these scenarios in my head that fill the gaps. Well, these assumptions, of course, take on a life of their own. They come attached with these crazy feelings and we become attached to those feelings. We kind of create our own reality a little bit more. I'm sure I'm not articulating this well. But I can see your point.