Agreed FOBD. I'm looking at any contact as good contact as well right now. I also think that my DBing has taken the hate fuel from my W. One of the first things that I read on a thread from this site was this:
"For now, your role in her fantasy play is that of evil villan. She needs that to justify her behavior. Try your best to stay off the stage."
That bit of advice helped me tremendously.
I like the idea of posting something on my mirror to DB each day regardless of what W does.
Thanks FOBD
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
First thanks for responding to my thread. I read that before I read this, your new post. How awful and odd that we woke up in the exact same place today. And even stranger that your story is almost identical to mine. I understand EXACTLY how you feel and you helped clarify it for me. It's like the wounded helping the wounded, but here are my thoughts if they help...
I understand the whole EA thing turning to PA right after the spouse moves out. I wonder if it was an A all the time as my H tells me it is "just a friend" any time it is mentioned, though other friends confirm it has gone PA. Here's what I have come to and why I think you are confused like me - In our spouses minds they never had an A. They are actually being "honest" with us and themselves in their world what I now call "Crazy Town." They justified the supportive friend as exactly that and could not recognize that there is even such a thing as an EA. The OM/OW was their strength to exit our lives, as they probably could not have done it on their own, but they don't see that. Then minutes after leaving, it went PA. Again, in their minds they never cheated on us. Now they are physically gone and "single" so that's how they rationalize any guilt they may feel. But why are we confused? Because to us, an EA is in many ways worse than a PA. It's sharing intimacy, and it started well before they physically left. It hurts more that they were sharing the deepest parts of their soul - dreams, hurts, wishes, etc. - with someone other than us. And we try to blame ourselves and relieve them of responsibility. Still I bet you obsess and picture them together now don't you? It drives me crazy, and makes me physically ill. How do I cope with that? I try to look at the glass half full - Best diet ever. Lost that pesky 20 pounds even without getting on my elliptical. And you know what, I look freakin hot now, and about 10 years younger. I would date me.
I know, if only I can maintain that thought. That's the trick, but get a mantra - something you repeat to yourself inside when you need strength. I also tell myself that I will never look back on these days and say to myself (and no one else will be able to say) that I was only ever kind, understanding, and supportive to my spouse. Never hateful, never blaming when I talk to others. I rose above it and was a better person for it. I will always be proud I had the strength to love, even in the face of pain. And I will always know I was honest with myself and my spouse about my feelings. You can not truly love someone for 22 years like I did, and suddenly truly hate them the next day. Ironic that it feels like that is exactly what they did to us, I know. Try to let it go and make this about you.
The other major issue for you is exactly the same for me too - do you set boundaries, or just continue LRT and practice patience. Although many tell us to set boundaries, I completely understand that your biggest fear is that if you play that card, it feels like all or nothing. If our spouses choose the OM then the jig's up and we have to confront our future alone. In our hearts we probably are too afraid to pull that trigger and risk the answer because our hearts have not let go, and even small glimmers of hope keep us going. Do you ever say to yourself "But if I let go, then did I ever really love them?" And it keeps you in the same place because you don't want to be the one who "let go." It hurts to love someone who is hurting you. Yet, as we practice the LRT it feels as if nothing is happening and what we wouldn't give to be inside the spouse's head sometimes, just to know for certain...is there hope? Do they still feel love for us? Are they confused and will eventually find their way back? Are they waiting for us to call it quits so they don't have to feel any more guilt? But we can not know any of these things, and that's exactly what is killing us. So we imagine pulling the trigger like friends and family say, but quietly we wait and hurt.
So where are we today? We both woke up sad and confused. We've read the books, we've talked to friends, we've posted here. So much of the advice is right, but at the end of the day you know it is only you walking in your shoes. You crave clear direction but know that you can only give it to yourself.
All I know for sure is this:
1. Regardless of the outcome, we must focus on ourselves. If the spouse returns we will be better people at that point - four ourselves first and for them second. If they don't come back, at least we have our feet on the road to recovery.
2. I worry that I am damaged and can never love again and that spouse will always have been the "one." I fear loneliness. I have gone out for drinks once (on New Year's eve) with someone I met at a support group. I made myself. I got hit on 3 times. It was nice in the moment but I came home and cried. Now I try to use that to remind myself that even though I can not picture another person in my life now, or maybe even ever, I am NOT doomed to be alone unless I choose it for myself. I was NOT the complete reason my spouse left even IF I have things I can improve upon. I am NOT garbage put to the side of the curb. And I get how you feel W is "disrespecting" you by carrying on A. Even though they are gone, you feel like they are cheating on you now, and wonder how someone who loved you and that you loved can do that. It's like stabbing us over and over and you wonder who the hell that person is. They are like a stranger to us, and no amount of logic can explain it in a way that helps us understand so that we feel emotionally healthy enough to move on.
3. Knowing that you can not "make" your W do the things you so desperately want them to do is frustrating, confusing, and depressing. You wonder if anything you are doing is right. You beat yourself up for not having the strength to really move on. And it kills you that it seemed so easy for them to have moved on. I bet you have googled the statistics about how many of those spouses return, just like me. Looking for a reason to have hope. I have come to the conclusion that you can allow yourself to always have hope, but it can not be all consuming. Focusing on yourself does not mean that you have "thrown in the towel." Accept that you have "hope" but also have "hope" that you can be complete and happy on your own. Know that at the end of the day we will both eventually pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and life will go on. It's like the line from the movie..."That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger"
4. In a strange way, we must believe in fate. That's the only way I can explain that I have happened upon you and your story, and it so frighteningly mirrors mine in detail and it's happening right now. The only explanation is that we may derive strength from each other. And the way that we may believe in fate will give us the strength to let go. Our spouses must be free to find themselves and let the A run it's course. I do know I would never want my H back because he felt like I "manipulated" or "guilted" him into it. Let's face it, if our spouses don't return to us with open and honest hearts, and if they are not new enlightened people like we are becoming, it could never be good or truly happy. Who would want that? And if we really have loved them all these many years, we must let the road take us where it leads, even if we feel lost. It may feel like we are doing "nothing," but by employing LRT, we are healing ourselves. If it impacts the spouse in a positive way, then that remains to be seen.
5. Patience is difficult. It feels like you are doing nothing and have no control. I try to remind myself that my life is not happening TO me. I am free to choose my actions and how to spend the hours of my day. If I spend it obsessing about H, he is controlling me. Not fair. We are both getting close to the stage of anger/revenge as I see it. Little moments where you wish karma to "get even" with your spouse. Or worse, you fantasize about how to get the OM/OW out of the picture altogether. Maybe fate deals them their comeuppance and a greyhound bus inadvertently runs them down as they cross the street. Horrible, I know, but I've been there. Of course, all you get from those thoughts is a feeling of guilt. But the anger is starting to boil under the surface. Let it out to people you trust. They will not judge, and you will feel a little better.
I can only guess by your username "Denver" that you are nowhere near me. Sadly, I could see us having a drink together and sharing some strength in those weak moments. Thanks for being their for me on my thread. I hope I have helped you today. It has helped me refocus by sharing with you.
Wow Scott, your post is right on the money. You and Denver are living through exactly the same thing as I am it is happening as we speak.
This is the part of your sitch I have always been confused about.
You were seeking help, How was that WAW? I am not trying to sound like a jerk or anything, it is just that I am confused by this.
I can understand why it would be confusing. It is unusual for a WAW who is having an EA to seek out help for the M. But, I certainly was that WAW. Being a WAW is what's in the heart of the woman. She doesn't have to actually leave the house, but in her heart...she has forsook her H. That was the place I was in at that time.
I have to give my spiritual raising credit for being whatever (I think, God) was behind me that night I found my way to the DB Board. I had not given up the EA, but was actually trying to decide if I should pursue leaving my M or if there was any hope for things getting better. I was in bad shape and was desperate for help.
So, a WAS can come here trying to get help.....but it's not as common as LBS's.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Since my thread is over 100 posts, I think that I should close this one out and begin a new one. I will do that in the next day or two. I'm going to leave this one with some closing personal journal thoughts so that they are documented for me to look back on someday.
First a story of some personal growth that I saw in myself yesterday.
I have a client who is a hair dresser at a pretty nice spa. I have kind of become friends with him. He knows my sitch with W and has gone though a couple of D's himself. Anyway, he offered to tone down some of the gray in my hair and consult with me on a new hair style. He also told me that his spa has a woman who does waxing. My W had told me for years that I would like it if I got my eyebrows waxed but I always refused bc it didn't seem very 'manly'. But, since I am going through this life change, I decided to go ahead and give it a shot and also set up an appt with the waxing woman. BTW, guys out there... I actually enjoyed it and liked the way that it looked after it was done.
But that's not the story of personal growth. The story is this. The waxing women ended up being a very attractive 24 year old who was super cool. Once the waxing was done, my client did my hair. While he was doing this he mentioned to me that the waxing woman was single and that he would love to set me up with her. Now if my W and I had broken up 5 years ago when we were just bf/gf, I would have jumped on this offer... and 15 years ago when I broke up with my previous fiancee, i would have jumped on the offer. But now, I realized that I had no interest. That my heart is with my W even with all of the cr*p that is happening. I realized that I have gained some control over my ego which certainly could have been fed by accepting this offer of a set up with attractive 24 year old woman! I was very proud of myself and had no doubt about telling him that I just wasn't interested right now. That I had NO interest in dating anyone other than my W! Wow!!! I have to say that I was impressed with myself and how sure I was about my answer to him.
I see this as progress for myself as a person. Personal growth. Maturity. Commitment to my M and to my W even in tough times.
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I find a lot of inspiration from music. I find that there are certain lyrics to songs that I relate to. There is often comfort in hearing such songs and pondering how they relate to my life or a specific situation that I am going through. So I leave this particular thread with some lyrics that touched me today. Of course it is a song that is well known and has always been one of my favorites. But it was different when I listened to it today.
I know that these lyrics meant something different to their author, but to me it seemed to relate to my need to detach from my situation with W and let go. How I need to ignore poor advice that I sometimes get from friends and family and put aside the fear of what they may be thinking about me as I go through this process as I must to stand for my own principles and values. There is no hurry... I'm just sitting her doin time... there is no problem, only solutions... I'm doin fine!
"People say I'm crazy doing what I'm doing, Well they give me all kinds of warnings to save me from ruin, When I say that I'm o.k. they look at me kind of strange, Surely your not happy now you no longer play the game,
People say I'm lazy dreaming my life away, Well they give me all kinds of advice designed to enlighten me, When I tell that I'm doing Fine watching shadows on the wall, Don't you miss the big time boy you're no longer on the ball?
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round, I really love to watch them roll, No longer riding on the merry-go-round, I just had to let it go,
People asking questions lost in confusion, Well I tell them there's no problem, Only solutions, Well they shake their heads and they look at me as if I've lost my mind, I tell them there's no hurry... I'm just sitting here doing time,
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round, I really love to watch them roll, No longer riding on the merry-go-round, I just had to let it go."
John Lennon
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I haven't had the time to do something for myself but this coming week I plan on doing something...anything. I went on a date with someone from work a few days ago and even though at first I was not wanting to I actually enjoyed myself a lot. We just sat and talked over a couple of bottles of wine.
At the end of the evening she went her way and I went mine but it was nice to see I was not some undesirable piece of man meat like I thought I was. You seem to be on the right track. Everyone else seems to be so much stronger than me at this point.
I get the same advice from family and friends but my heart tells a different story, I need to concentrate on that and believe that my gut will not fail me now. If your gut tell you to hang in there then hang in there brother. Everyone has good intentions but only you know what feels right
Scott, I took several quotes from your post, and I re-read them often for strength. They make me cry. I never cried, ever, before this happened to me. We are all broken.
Me-37 W-37 Married-14 SS17, D11, S5 Bomb: 12/13/10 WAW one foot out the door.
Denver, that is great! You're making good progress on you... you're growing a lot. I've only been on here 2 weeks and I can see the progress. I can almost even read some peace in your posts. WTG!
Me - 38, 2nd M, no living children, 1 forever 6 yr old boy H - 44, 3rd M, twins 16
Dating 4/07 M 10/08 Bomb #1 12/10 Bomb #2 1/11 Bomb #3 12/11
What you displayed there was a deep understanding of what you want, how to get it and a willingness to work those steps. You have truly put your ego aside. I really could learn a lot from that! You really need to be so proud.
Ummm... waxing eyebrows, I won't even do that! That is BRAVE!!!
What's the gameplan Denver? Besides waiting, what is your gameplan? I'm interested because I need some help on what to do next and I am sensing the sadness from you. I am scared to death of heights. I think I want to do one of those rock climbing wall things... I joined a gym, hired a personal trainer, starting to go to church again, reading different kinds of books, trying to reach out and meet different people. I need more, though. So what's next on your things to do while waiting?
I am praying for your reconciliation and peace. And again, so proud of you!
at this point.