On Figurative Ledge - Talk Me Down?

[Denver_2010]

No worries Habit and MJ on asking questions on my post. No worries at all. I am trying to figure this out too and you guys are asking good follow up questions. Our situations have a lot of similarities, so yes, I believe that we can learn from each other's.

I follow each of your threads as well.

Denver

[FellOnBlackDays]

Denver,
How are you doing, buddy? Sounds like you had some fun this weekend and that is good. I hope you won more than you lost, HA!

Hey, I wanted to comment on one thing you wrote:

"I still don't understand how someone can go from being my W a mere two months ago, to someone who treats me like I am a distant memory."

I was battling that also, so I talked with my C about this. He stated that my W didn't just "jump ship," so to speak. He asked me, "When did your wife actually move out?" I replied, "First week in September." He replied, "Well, I don't know how to tell you this, but there is a very good chance your wife was emotionally checked out of your marriage some time in February or earlier." I was floored, but it made sense. It was about that time that she stared refusing to have sex with me. So, during her visit on Tuesday night, we discussed this and my C was right. She finally openly admitted that she has been depressed and wanting to leave me for over a year. You see, to us it feels like they suddenly flipped a switch and stopped being our W's. But to them, this has been going on for a very long time. They are much farther down the "road of grief" than we are right now because they had a head start. Don't focus any longer on this. Just focus on what you can do to take care of yourself and what you can do going forward to make the necessary changes to get her attention again. You can't change the fact that she is emotionally checked out. So, just forget it. Focus on what you are going to do to change this going forward. This will do two great things for you: 1) You will feel better about yourself 2) This will help to get you caught up to her on the "road of grief." It will be much easier for the two of you to communicate in the future if you are at the same mile marker on the "road of grief." This is not my thoughts by the way. I stole all of this from my C, but it does make sense.

Hang in there and keep me posted on any new developments.

BITS!!!

FOBD

[Metal]

Awesome advice here. Thanks.
If we do go out, and WAW's are asking questions, should we not tell them, or maybe just be vague? Like "I'm just going out", or "I'm going out with the guys"?? I for one am going to have to start finding people who go out.

[ironMan]

I'm with you Denver. Hang in there. I'm working on detachment as well and am much earlier in the process than you. But I do know that the more I detach and "surrender" to the fact that I have no control over what she decides or does ..... the better I feel.

[dbmod]

Detaching and going dark are two different things.

You can detach without going dark, and go dark without being detached.

Detaching is about YOU emotionally. Going dark is about the interactions in your relationship--stopping pursuit.

So you can be her friend and detach, which means you don't do things out of emotional need. I know it feels confusing until you get the hang of it, because the goal of DB IS to get change the behaviors of your spouse by changing your own actions.

Detaching lets you make rational decisions. Your FIL knows your wife, and he means well. Your DBer friends often know best. Not always, but often. Your Coach really is an expert. If your coach and DBers agree, and you do something different, you probably let your emotions get the best of you.

It's ok. You just move forward. It's just information (her response), that lets you adjust accordingly. If you treat it that way--you're advance towards being detached.

[FellOnBlackDays]

Simpleton,
I would say in the beginning see what works best. Early on in my mess, I was being as vague as possible because that is what she was doing to me. I wanted her to wonder what was going on. But as we have now begun to tear down the wall between us, I let her set the pace. If she calls me up and gets inquisitive, I respond. I give her the information she wants. But in return, I politely as possible ask for answers to my questions in return. I find lately that the more open I am with her, the more open she becomes. This has been a huge accomplishment for me because in the beginning she told me on numerous occasions that I was "no longer privy to information about her actions." Now, she actually at times will give me details. So, out of kindness, I make sure to reciprocate. I am changing a behavior in my spouse that I didn't like by changing my behavior toward her. Not my idea, I stole it from DR. Give it a try and let us know how it works.

DBmod,
Thanks for the explanation. I now better understand the difference between the two. Stupidly, I do believe I thought I had to use them hand-in-hand. But they can be two different entities. Please keep us straight. Thanks again!

Denver, where are you buddy? How are things?

FOBD

[Denver_2010]

Detaching and going dark are two different things.

You can detach without going dark, and go dark without being detached.

Detaching is about YOU emotionally. Going dark is about the interactions in your relationship--stopping pursuit.

So you can be her friend and detach, which means you don't do things out of emotional need. I know it feels confusing until you get the hang of it, because the goal of DB IS to get change the behaviors of your spouse by changing your own actions.

Detaching lets you make rational decisions. Your FIL knows your wife, and he means well. Your DBer friends often know best. Not always, but often. Your Coach really is an expert. If your coach and DBers agree, and you do something different, you probably let your emotions get the best of you.

It's ok. You just move forward. It's just information (her response), that lets you adjust accordingly. If you treat it that way--you're advance towards being detached.

Thank you so much for that clarification on detaching and going dark Dbmod. I think that I had melded the two as being one and the same. I know now that I definitely need to detach. The question still remains about the level and frequency of contact with W. I think that Sandi made some good points about some of my recent contact with W and I am still pondering that.

I still have 2 consults with my DB coach and need to schedule one soon to clarify strategy a little more.

[Denver_2010]

I'm with you Denver. Hang in there. I'm working on detachment as well and am much earlier in the process than you. But I do know that the more I detach and "surrender" to the fact that I have no control over what she decides or does ..... the better I feel.

No question onestep. Somedays are harder than others and you will backslide on detaching. I was doing well from about 12/26-1/7, but then hit a week where I was an emotional wreck again. The hows and whys as to this I have no idea. It just happened. Feeling a little better again the past couple of days though. Keep up the good work!

[Denver_2010]

FOBD - I'm doing a bit better these past couple of days. At least better than I was last week. Of course I always seem to do better when I have at least some contact with my W every couple of days. W has initiated short text conversations for 3 days straight now, so that probably has something to do with it. She seems more willing to share stuff about what is going with she and SS so that's good. The bad is that I can feel this invisible hand still pushing me away... keeping us on more of an acquaintance level than a H/W level.

Baby steps though! At least she has initiated the conversations and our convos have been much friendly than anything I could have expected 7 weeks ago.

[Denver_2010]

I was battling that also, so I talked with my C about this. He stated that my W didn't just "jump ship," so to speak. He asked me, "When did your wife actually move out?" I replied, "First week in September." He replied, "Well, I don't know how to tell you this, but there is a very good chance your wife was emotionally checked out of your marriage some time in February or earlier." I was floored, but it made sense. It was about that time that she stared refusing to have sex with me. So, during her visit on Tuesday night, we discussed this and my C was right. She finally openly admitted that she has been depressed and wanting to leave me for over a year. You see, to us it feels like they suddenly flipped a switch and stopped being our W's. But to them, this has been going on for a very long time. They are much farther down the "road of grief" than we are right now because they had a head start. Don't focus any longer on this. Just focus on what you can do to take care of yourself and what you can do going forward to make the necessary changes to get her attention again. You can't change the fact that she is emotionally checked out. So, just forget it. Focus on what you are going to do to change this going forward. This will do two great things for you: 1) You will feel better about yourself 2) This will help to get you caught up to her on the "road of grief." It will be much easier for the two of you to communicate in the future if you are at the same mile marker on the "road of grief." This is not my thoughts by the way. I stole all of this from my C, but it does make sense.

I think that this is dead on and very good advice. Thanks FOBD