On Figurative Ledge - Talk Me Down?

[Denver_2010]

Just a little journaling here about contact with W over past few days and my GAL.

I already document that I called W and had brief conversation with her on the 12th. She told me in the convo that she was filling in a lead vocalist for 3 straight nights for a disco band that she used to play with years ago.

1/13/11 No contact

1/14/11

W initiated text re a doctor’s appointment that she just had and how it applies to our insurance.

I responded that insurance should pay for it.

Later, I sent second text “Did your show go well last night?”

She responded: “yes. but I’m tired and its killing my voice. Gonna take a nap. Tow more nights like last night. ugg.”

Me: “good. Damn I wish you’d done a gig with them months ago so I could have seen u in the afro! :)”

She didn’t respond.

1/15/10

W initiated text that I later realized was probably sent out to me and probably her sis and mom, maybe some other people. Anyway, it said “SS is on his first date. Crazy! The dad went too! I like that!”

I responded an hour later: “I know!! I talked to him earlier today about it. He said he was nervous. I told him to relaz, be a gentleman, and be himself. I hope that it goes well for him. Will you let me know, or have him call me?”

W: “sure.”

My second response: “Just realized that was probably a mass text. Nonetheless, I’d like to know how it goes for him. Good luck w your show tonite.”

W: “Thanks. Should be fun. Lost my voice though, so it will also suck!”

Me: “you’ll be great...”

W: “Well I will be good enough. It’s not worth worrying over. It won’t make my voice come back. Gotta run. Have a good night.”

I didn’t reply

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My conversations with W are good in that they are more friendly than they were 5-8 weeks ago and she seems more willing to share info about what she is doing and what is going on with she and SS. But they are bad in that they are like conversations bw two people who are distant acquaintances rather than bw H and W.

I still don't understand how someone can go from being my W a mere two months ago, to someone who treats me like I am a distant memory.

baby steps...

I am GAL more than I probably let on here on these boards. I played poker with some of my best friends last night. I have plans to go to see 30 Seconds to Mars on Friday night. Played some raquetball with a buddy yesterday. Trying to stay busy.

I have plans to take SS to a DU hockey game on Saturday night. I'm wondering if I will see W when I get SS... we haven't made arrangements yet. But I'm already planning on getting my haircut this week and what I will wear... I've never been so damn pathetic in my life! What can I say, I want my W to fall in love with me again...

[sandi2]

I am not here to hurt anyone, please believe that.

I feel like I have Josh McDaniels coaching my DB team here... no clear direction or organization!

Without going back to reread your thread, I would dare say the first advice you were given was to detach. Detach, let go of control, pull back.....what is unclear about that? Don't blame disorganization on us if you can't follow through on the very first step of DBing.

But when you were the WAS, was it at all due to your H being a "absentee H",

It was due to me turning to another man to fulfill my emotional needs. In all our years together, my H never talked with me. I was starved for emotional intimacy. He never approached me with anything that might improve our MR. If I tried to talk to him about anything that was serious, he stared at the TV and wouldn't say a word. I felt like I was M to a knot on a log.

When he discovered OM, then H smothered me with attention. It backfired.

I guess what I am trying to figure out is if this was at all the case with H when you were WAS, didn't his detachment from you enforce feelings of abandonment that you already felt from him?

This is the part that LBH's don't understand. Let's say a woman does feel abandoned due to her H being absent. But once she becomes a WAW, and if he tries to to be there all the time....it doesn't work. Yes, she wanted and needed him to spend time with her before...but after she becomes a WAW in mind or physically, it's too late to apply those things. It's too late b/c of her frame of mind. If you try to be the H she used to desire....it will disgust her. If you try to be there with her instead of being absent, she will feel that you are smothering her. She doesn't want you following her around, talking to her, giving her all your attention. Not now! She's changed!

I don't know how to convince you that you cannot try to be who she once wanted. You have to become the man you were before M....or better. But you can't deceive yourself into believing she wants it, when in reality you are too afraid to do what is needed. You are looking for somebody to tell you this is the way to DB, and some newcomer might think you're right.....but I doubt you'll find a WAW who'll agree.

As long as my H pursued me...it turned me off. When he detached and left me along....then we entered into the first baby-steps of piecing.

One more thing, I could tell my H was scared. Your W can tell you are afraid, too. It is so unbecoming to a woman. She wants her man to be confident in R's.

[sandi2]

Guess it's how you see it, b/c to me...your W is applying exactly what you should be doing. Only exception is she initiated TM's.

Look back over the conversation again. She kept her sentences very short and she was the one to end the conversation first, every time.

To me it appears as though you are pushing, but to you I'm sure it seems as if you're being a good friend. JMHO.

I know it's frustrating for you. Sometimes you may feel that everything you do or say is wrong. Keep learning what works....that's the important part.

((hugs))

[mj144]

Sandi, what if it seems like nothing works?

[mj144]

Sandi, what if it seems like nothing works?

[habitacker]

Sandi,

Thanks, I needed to see that hardline approach about detaching from you.

I need to do it.

I have a few things I feel that is holding me back.

1. Same as everyone else, fear. It doesn't make sense to us.

2. I would like to know why this helps the WAW, and why it would help the WAW want back in the R, instead of making it easier for them to walk away.

3. Being in the same house seems to make it tougher to detach, but I leave her alone to do her thing the best I can. I was always gone in the past, and now I am always home. Mainly to be with the kids, this is part of 180. This being home contradicts detaching in her eyes I would assume, but I don't know how to do it differently.

I would just get out of the house and leave her alone completely, but it is just not going to happen with kids involved.

[hope2011]

Wow, Sandi, I think we all needed to read that.

Denver, who were you when she fell in love with you? Do you have any early letters, e-mails? NOT to send to her (no matter how tempting) but remind yourself who you were in the beginning. What made you attractive to her?

Taking that advice too.

[sandi2]

Sandi, what if it seems like nothing works?

I believe it would matter if your S was working at the M or not. If the S refuses to cooperate and work toward the R, then I personally believe you need to drop the rope. If dropping the rope has no affect, then you need to move forward with your life, IMHO.

[habitacker]

Being the man I was before the M?

Well, I was very pursuing. I pursued hard until I got her.

I was very romantic and affectionate.

So how do I become the man I was before M, if I am not supposed to do these things?

[sandi2]

1. Same as everyone else, fear. It doesn't make sense to us.

Yes, I know it doesn't make sense, but the WAW is usually not very logical in her thinking. If she's in an A, then she's totally bonkers. The truth is that you can't afford to let her see the fear in you. It's almost like an animal sensing your fear and attacking.

2. I would like to know why this helps the WAW, and why it would help the WAW want back in the R, instead of making it easier for them to walk away.

I assume you are talking about detaching. It helps her b/c she is as done with this M as she can be (until D). Emotionally, she is already D. That is the cruel fact of the matter. It helps her when you detach b/c it is like clearing the air of your presence. She actually feels like she can breathe again. If you're detached, then you're not going to be getting on her nerves like you would otherwise. It helps her relax and to think more clearly without negative emotions taking over. Let's face it, that's usually what a WAW feels when she sees her Hk so she needs him to pull back and let her regroup (big time).

Look at it this way, think of a person you absolutely cannot stand. Now think of that person trying to be buddy-buddy with you all the time. How would that affect you? Well, that is how she feels toward you pursuing her. Just as you would try to figure how to get rid of that pest, she wants to get rid of you hanging on to her.

It's not making it easier for her to leave.....it makes it harder. How can she miss you if you don't leave her alone? Having space will give her time to work on her issues about you. If she's in an A, then it will get her attention in other ways that I won't go into right now.

It's something about human nature. She won't want your attention when she's having wrong feelings about you. But, when you aren't showing particular interest in her....and not giving her your undivided attention....then it will spike her interest into "why"....and she'll seek to find out why. Did you have a wake-up call? Well, the WAW needs one also.

3. Being in the same house seems to make it tougher to detach, but I leave her alone to do her thing the best I can. I was always gone in the past, and now I am always home. Mainly to be with the kids, this is part of 180. This being home contradicts detaching in her eyes I would assume, but I don't know how to do it differently.

I would just get out of the house and leave her alone completely, but it is just not going to happen with kids involved.

It is possible to detach when under the same roof, but it is difficult. Detaching is as much of an attitude as action. If you aren't following her around the house, making up excuses to say something to her, brag on her, get all melty-man if she responds to something you say or do.....then yes, you can detach.

The kids can be a perfect outlet for you. Take them and leave with them. Tell her, "Hey, the kids and I are going out to the park to play on the rides, then get a bite to eat before coming back home." Always have something planned that you can use for a quick back-up plan if needed on a bad night. Weekends should be packed with fun things. If you work, then make the most of the time you have with them. You can say, "The kids aNd I are going to drive around and get some ice cream. You are welcome to come along". But here's the important part.....you say that as you are getting them ready to go out the door and you don't look at her and you keep moving. You want her to know that you were being "nice", but wasn't waiting for an answer. A few times of that, and if she wants to go....she'll jump on it when you invite her. This is giving her an attractive side of you. She wants to be part of that.

When you can go out with your friends, then go, b/c that helps keep you nmore interesting. If you can act a little mysterous, then do so (without lying, of course.)

I could talk for hours on the reasons to detach.