I believe we are concurrently in stages 2 & 3 of the marriage map and that I have already had symptoms of MLC and now my wife is having them. I also know that I am part of the LRT right now so I have to look for small changes and I cannot “ask for what I want”.
More of the same:
1. Blaming in any way. 2. Being defensive even if I am not acting “angry”. 3. Explaining myself and how I’ve changed instead of showing it. 4. Pursuing a. Texting b. Too many thank-you’s c. Acting needy and scared and saying so when it comes to the pets d. Ignoring her questions when I am trying to avoid confrontations 5. Being a hopeless wreck and simply clinging to hope
How to stop these:
1. Take accountability for anything I do wrong and simply validate my wife’s feelings. Most importantly SHUT UP if I am going to blame in any way. 2. Stop talking about past expectations and explaining my actions. Keep up on anger management techniques. 3. Do not explain what I am doing to show respect or how I have supposedly been listening. If possible take action but otherwise just validate the feelings. Any opportunity I have to be around my wife or in-laws I need to show the changes. Especially if I am in the house, clean up what I can in the amount of time I have, do small things without being asked that I didn’t do before. 4. Think about any action or word from my wife’s point of view and see if it is pursing. a. If I must text my wife about something, once and done and wait for a reply. b. Show appreciation b/c she complained that wasn’t there before but don’t thank multiple times or in any way that shows weakness on my part, just appreciation. c. If my wife wants to discuss business do it in a way that shows I care but I am not scared. Treat it like an adult in a business transaction and do not mention how I feel. Will have to come to terms that I may lose my pets, while I love them dearly I love my wife more. d. If my wife wants to discuss business do it in a way that shows I care but I am not scared. Treat it like an adult in a business transaction and do not mention how I feel. 5. Work on detachment for my own sanity. Get a life as much as possible with the kind of job I have. “Act as if” whenever I can with my wife and in-laws.
Broad Goals:
1. Stay married. 2. Restore trust. 3. Be happy. 4. Be intimate.
Refined Goals:
1. Stay married a. My wife will not file divorce papers b. My wife will stop talking about divorce c. My wife will start thinking of me in future plans d. My wife will leave her boyfriend e. We will start spending time together again 2. Restore trust a. My wife will leave her boyfriend b. I will not snoop c. We will talk openly and honestly about our needs and wants without judgment or anger d. We will respect each other and be each other’s cheerleaders 3. Be happy a. We will discuss our relationship in a healthy manner and learn from our mistakes b. We will spend as much time together as possible and talk on the phone the rest of the time like we used to c. We will do activities together and be willing to “give” to other by doing activities we may not be all that interested in d. We will smile when we see each other 4. Be intimate a. My wife will allow any physical contact b. My wife will allow hugs and/or holding hands c. We will kiss and do it often d. I will display non-sexual loving touch whenever I possibly can e. We will make love, not just have sex f. We will be monogamous
Techniques:
1. Last resort technique a. I have to practice this properly and only contact my wife if ABSOLUTELY necessary. b. Take care of myself and build a support group outside of family. c. If asking to visit pets, only ask once. d. Do not pursue in any way. e. Do not snoop. 2. 180 a. If my wife brings up the finances or the house and living situation set boundaries. i. What are her ideas on the house? What are her ideas about the bills? Show that I value her opinion and I am really listening to her input ii. I don’t mind her staying in the house but I do want to visit the animals iii. She can move out and I keep the house b. Do not get pulled into relationship talks about feelings, just validate her feelings if she expresses them. c. Continue to avoid anger at any and all costs. 3. Act as if a. Act as if my marriage will survive. b. Act as if I am the only man for my wife. c. Act happy and confident – especially around my wife and in-laws. 4. Easier done than said a. Do not explain myself or my actions that are positive. b. Apologize and take responsibility for anything that warrants it, otherwise, just validate. c. If in the house, do the small chores that I didn’t do before. d. If I am around my wife make small, nice gestures without expectations.
First Signs:
1. No filed divorce papers. 2. No divorce talk. 3. She will initiate contact. 4. We will have a “normal” conversation, such as “how was your day” or “how are you doing” kind of talk. 5. She will want to see me face-to-face. 6. She will allow any physical contact.
You need to take the focus off of your wife and put it on YOU. You can only control YOUR behavior. Many of your goals are 1) "MY WIFE"...... 2) "MY WIFE"...... 3) "MY WIFE"...... 4) "MY WIFE"......
they should be
I am going to do this... I am going to do that...
You must lower your expectations. If this is a MLC it is going to take time, lots of time. You must learn patience and need to GAL.
Honestly I am a little lost on that advice because I was following the outline in "The Divorce Remedy" which seemed to focus on what you will see changing as good signs. When I have more time I will re-read and re-evaluate and see if I can utilize your advice.
12-16-10 my wife sends me the following text, "Are u planning on coming here or ur parents for christmas?"
I wait a day because I do not want to seem too eager to respond. Before responding I talk with my mother-in-law about the plans for Christmas and do not bring up my wife or relationship at all, I just tell her that I want to spend time with my family. I also have a conversation with a woman that we had done some swinging with and she ended up seeing us as good friends...I lay out some boundaries with this woman b/c it isn't the healiest of relationships to begin with. She talks to my W and tells her that there are "rules" to being friends and asks if I have always been this way. My W tells her yes, it has to be my way and that's why she left. This woman gets upset with me and tells me that my marriage is hopeless and I am too controlling so I tell her not to contact me anymore. When I reference kids below I am meaning our pets.
Texting on 12-17-10
Me "Lebanon"
W "Ok. I will be moved out by the end of the month hopefully."
Me "Ok"
Me "You were right too, we need to discuss the bills and how I will be able to visit the kids. Once you move out I want you to know that you will be welcome back in the house if you need a place to stay, but the man who's stuff I saw in the bathroom is not welcome."
W "My name is still on this house and legally i can come back wether u say i can or not."
Me "I understand how you feel. I have a legal right to the house as well. That man is not welcome in my home."
W "When r u going to get here?"
Me "Don't know"
W "My mom said something about christmas eve..."
Me "Requested it. Doesn't mean I will get it."
That's the end of the conversation. The positives I found were that she initiated contact, divorce was not mentioned, as far as I know the papers have not been filed, and I validated feelings and set boundaries.
I never paid attention how to copy a person's quotes and pu them into the yellow boxes like so many do, so I simply copied some of your last post below and will respond to it.
Me "You were right too, we need to discuss the bills and how I will be able to visit the kids. Once you move out I want you to know that you will be welcome back in the house if you need a place to stay, but the man who's stuff I saw in the bathroom is not welcome."
W "My name is still on this house and legally i can come back wether u say i can or not."
Me "I understand how you feel. I have a legal right to the house as well. That man is not welcome in my home."
I think you're getting into too heavy a conversation over a text message. She asked what your plans were for Christmas, so I think you would have been best off just answering that question in a pleasant, upbeat way. Getting into the repeated stances of "that man is not welcome in my house" only shows her that if she contacts you with a simple logistical question, you will very shortly steer the conversation into your anger about OM. I would suspect this may only cause her to not want to initiate contact unless absolutely necessary if this is how it will be.
I would advise you to take that question about Christmas at face value and not read anything more into it. She may very well have simply just wanted to know what your plans were, so she could go about making her own work out too. Hard to say for sure, but even think about when relationships are going well this time of year, there is a lot of logistical planning. That couldve been why she asked. And although you say that there was a positive in that there was no divorce talk, she still said she hoped to be out by the end of the month, so I wouldn't look at that as a positive really.
I'm not saying any of this to put you into despair. It just comes across to me like she wanted simple information from you and you took the conversation in a different direction with an adverserial tone. I just don't see a lot of positives from this exchange. I tell you this only to keep you from getting your hopes up too high here.
I think your best bet is to see the dogs for whatever time you can, just be happy because it's Christmas and not sad because its Christmas and youre in this situation, and whatever you do, don't bring up the other guy again on Xmas. Let it go, for the sake of the day.
Hope you have a good holiday. Please take care.
GKM
M-34 XW-32 D-7 Found OM's presence 4/09 Separated 12/09 Divorced 8/10 GREAT relationship as coparents since 8/10
I understand what you are saying here and I will be careful in the future. Texting is the only communication we have anymore.
I decided to stand up for myself a bit and not be so soft, I already knew she was in the process of moving out of the house. I won't be seeing her and I won't be bringing up the OM at all; I didn't ask her to not see him, just stood my ground that it's my house too and he can't be in it.
I got home today and she has moved a lot of furniture out of the house and has packed a lot of my stuff. I feel that I need to discuss this with her because the furniture she moved out was both of ours. She also went ahead and gave one of the cats away and she took the dogs with her so I may or may not get to see them for a short time. I will "Act As If" Christmas is happy if I am around her family but truthfully, I can't be happy, but I'll only share that here.
I went ahead and got a coaching session this morning. Got some good advice that I am going to implement. I hope that I can get some more in a few weeks to tweak things. I have to look for a new job and go through bills and such to present to W. I see it as her choice to move out but she shouldn't have taken joint property and needs to pay half the credit card debt; if she wants to reserve the right to return to the house she needs to pay half the mortgage as well. I feel like I need to initiate these things to protect myself financially (because she has already been making unilateral decisions and taking paperwork), act like I am moving on and detaching, and to let her face the reality of going it alone but still having responsibilities that she can't just dump on me.
Oh, forgot, after she told me that she gave one of the cats away I said "Well I want her back. I'll need to know who and how to get in contact with them."
Guess that wasn't the best b/c it was adversarial.
I want to get a job where I can live in the house b/c the trucking company I am with isn't the best and I want to keep my cats no matter what happens to my M.
And, I checked my FaceBook account and the history on the computer. Looks like my W went snooping in my FB account and found my "Like" of the Divorce Busting FB page. Also, when I went to MySpace it prompted me to reset my password b/c somebody had tried logging in. Changed the passwords for those and my email accounts.
Before I finally went to sleep last night the thought, "do I really want to try anymore?" crossed my mind. I know I do but I think that me having that thought was a step towards true detachment because I am considering myself and not just my M.
I have to address the bills and house and such with my W. I am hitting the road tomorrow for 2 more weeks and I have no idea what else she is going to remove from the house or do with our pets or with the finances. I have written out a text (and yes, I know text is ideal but I have no other way of communicating with W right now) and would like feedback on it. Is it too harsh, too soft, needs rewording, or whatever?
"I don’t have time to get into a deep discussion on this right now because I am heading back to work. I appreciate you leaving the copies of the credit cards in your name here but I do need to know where my copies are and possibly where some of the other important financial paperwork has gone such as what might have been in the fire safe and past tax info. I had the taxes and many other important documents saved on the computer where you wiped it clean, did you actually back any of it up? I have spent time going over bills as much as I can with the limited info I have and I am working on how to split it up. I will have it ready for the next time I come home and we will need to discuss the bills, the house, and the joint property that you removed from the house. I know I don’t have a right to all of the property that you removed but it was your choice to move out and it does not mean you get to furnish your new place as you see fit with things that belong to both of us. This also means that giving away Patty was completely inappropriate as well. I am working on a solution so that I can keep Frank and Buddy (and hopefully get Patty back) and also have more availability to visit Nena and Spike. You’re unilateral decisions regarding belongings, the pets, packing my stuff, and the finances is very disrespectful."
I got a coaching session and it was helpful. On the coaches advice I wrote and mailed a letter to my W letting her know how I should have treated her, how I screwed up, and just apologized. I didn't ask for reconciliation and the coach said this might show her that I know I should have cheished her and how OM isn't. Been about a week since I've mailed it and nothings changed. I am on the road and no communication at all. I am looking for a job that will allow me to live in my house but other than that does anybody have any suggestions? I sent a text 2 days ago asking how the kids (our pets) are and to please give them a hug for me; no response so far.
