Drive The Bus, Or Be The Passenger?

[Kemper]

I am struggling to see the roadmap.

Part of me feels like the speed of my trip is accelerated due to my W having to be out of her condo by March 15th. Granted that is two months away, but it would probably take a month for my W to secure another place if she didn’t move back. Thus the timeframe is limited to about a month and I need to ensure this is the right thing to do for me. I have fears about the impact this would have on my sons if things didn’t work out.

I know I don’t want to go back to the M or R that we had before this situation happened. I find myself comparing my W’s actions/words or lack thereof to those of my ex-GF. I am having a hard time feeling or seeing that my W really wants to be with me. It isn’t any one big thing but a culmination of small things that have added up. This could also be the little voice questioning everything, but at the same time I know what it feels like to have someone truly care about me and give unselfishly. I don’t see, hear, or feel those same actions, words, or feelings from W like I did from my ex-GF.

I do have to keep in mind the positives that have occurred, but I also have to look at this from the perspective of making sure I am going into something where I can have my needs met so it doesn’t end up the way it used to be.

[Lotus]

Yes, it's that little negative voice. I think the timing sounds good. You have Retrouvaille at the end of February. If you both go there with open minds and willing hearts, I predict that by March 15, you will be ready to live together again. Why do I say that? Because I don't buy the phrase "if things didn't work it". Don't get me wrong, when I was in your position, I thought that way too. It was only later, when we were completely reconciled that I realized there was never a chance that it wouldn't work out once both of us decided that we wanted to reconcile.

Keep in mind love is a decision. It is not something that happens to you like getting a disease. You can decide to love and you can decide not to love. This will become clear to you when you go through the Retrouvaille program. But if you both decide to love each other, and you act in loving ways toward each other, then how could things not work out?

So you see, the power is in your hands and hers. No one else's. Loving is doing. It is actions.

[Lotus]

And yes, old love is not the same as new love, just as old comfortable shoes are not the same as new shoes. To stay married to the same person for one's whole adult life, you have to be willing to trade off the feeling of shiny, new love for comfortable, old love. It's not the same. But it has its good points. People who only want shiny, new love will never have comfortable, old love because they will keep throwing away their partners and searching for new ones. There are lots of people like that. You have to decide for yourself what you want.

[Kemper]

It was only later, when we were completely reconciled that I realized there was never a chance that it wouldn't work out once both of us decided that we wanted to reconcile.

My concern isn't that it can't or won't work, but rather knowing or better yet feeling that my W is 100% committed. I hear the words my W is saying, but some of the actions aren't matching. That could just be me expecting more at this given time than my W is capable of, and this isn't related to sex. It is more about how I feel when we are together and how I expect (maybe incorrectly) her to do certain actions that match her words.

Loving is doing. It is actions.

I think your statement above sums it up the best. It is the actions that I am not seeing.

To stay married to the same person for one's whole adult life, you have to be willing to trade off the feeling of shiny, new love for comfortable, old love.

I agree 100% and I am not looking for the shiny new love. What I am looking for is my W to be loving towards me unselfishly. It is the little things that I miss, the responses that let me know that she does want to be with me.

Here is an example of what I mean, and maybe I am just being crazy. I sent the following text last night to my W.

Me: The boys r in bed and I wish you were here!! xoxo
Her: I will be there tomorrow!!

Maybe it is just me but my response would have been. I wish I was there too. I can't wait to see you tomorrow!! xoxo

I know I want a solid relationship, I have never been one to jump from relationship to relationship to get the "in love" feelings. I just want to feel that the person I am with wants to be with me through their words and actions.

[Lotus]

Man, that little voice must be screaming in your ear! I see two exclamation points next to her reply. That means she is excited about seeing you tomorrow. Life is not a play that you are the director of. You don't get to write the script. She writes her own lines, and I think that one shows the right kind of enthusiasm. In a solid relationship you would not be inspecting her words so carefully.

Retrouvaille spends a lot of time explaining how to talk to each other, and how to listen to each other. After that training, I think you will find that her words will give you more confidence in the relationship. You know, my husband and I rarely say I love you to each other. But I no longer hunger for those words. I feel his love in many of the things he does. But we were not like that before Retrouvaille. They changed us and they made us better.

[Kemper]

You would never know it was a little voice based on how loud he is yelling.

Life is not a play that you are the director of. You don't get to write the script.

I love that. You are correct and I need to remember that people react in their own way and it doesn't always match how you would react.

I am looking forward to the Retro weekend. Thank you for all your insight Lotus.

[Lotus]

Keep in mind that she has that little loud voice going too. That's why piecing is so precarious. Both people are very ambivalent at first about what you are even doing.

It's good you have the MC to begin working with, so the two of you don't get too impatient. But it lacks the intensity of the Retro weekend. Don't expect miracles out of either one. You spent years getting into this hole you are in, you will not just leap out holding hands! It is a slow process. But really, a month ago, would you have even expected a text response like the one you got last night? Let alone have been disappointed with it? Keep looking back to assess your progress. As long as you are moving forward, or even holding steady, count your blessings! You are just beginning the work to excavate a site to build a foundation for your relationship. Too early to be decorating the interior!

[Kemper]

I am going to summarize the past week as a lot has changed since last Friday.

Friday night my W came over the house for our first overnight date. We cooked dinner together. The night started off with light conversation but over the course of the evening switched to more in-depth talks.

We discussed the breakdown of our marriage, the contributing factors to her A, what we want, etc. During our conversations I didn't feel like W was holding anything back. It is odd, but I felt like my W was saying all the right things without me feeling like I was pushing her to say them. Some of the comments my W made that stick out are:

She is thankful that I am even willing to give her and us a chance. She started to cry when she was saying this.
She is scared the A will constantly be thrown back in her face.
She wants to come home.
She asked what she could do to show me that she is serious about working on us.

After dinner and talking we snuggled on the couch and watched a movie. After the movie we headed up to the bedroom. For the first time in 17th months my W and I were going to sleep in the same bed. After ML while we were looking into each other’s eyes my W said “I love you Kemper”. I told her that I loved her too and we fell asleep holding each other.

Saturday
I woke up before W and started cooking breakfast. W came downstairs and we ate together before playing Monopoly on Xbox. During the game we talked about how to proceed forward. We discussed living arrangements and both of our perspectives but didn’t land on anything concrete. W did say that while she does want to come home she doesn’t want to pressure me, she wants to make sure I am willing to give us a chance. After the game we went upstairs took a shower together, ML, and got ready before the boys returned from their Grandmother’s house.

W took the boys to a birthday party and I decided that I was going to try and find brakes and rotors for my W’s car. She has been driving around with brakes that are basically metal on metal due to not having the 1k to fix them. I found the parts and called W to see if she wanted me to fix the brakes. I didn’t have any doubt she would want them fixed so we switched cars and I took hers back to the house to fix. About halfway through I realized I was missing a tool. I checked with a couple of neighbors and nobody had one. At that point W called to see how it was going. I explained that I needed a tool and she offered to pick it up for me.

W brought the tool over to the house and just hung out in the garage with my while the boys played and I fixed the brakes. At one point I asked W if she had thought anymore about what we discussed earlier about proceeding forward. I asked her if she was truly serious about working on our M. She said that she was and at that point I told her that I want her to come home. After fixing the car we sat down with the boys and told them that mommy was going to move back into the house and we would all be together again. We drove over to the condo and picked up some stuff and my W officially moved back into the house.

Sunday
We had a pretty lazy morning and then we drove over to the condo and picked up some more stuff. In the afternoon my youngest son had a birthday party to attend. We all went to the play place and W took our youngest to the party while our oldest and I played games and ate. While at the play place my W and I texted back and forth and had some fun banter.

Monday
It snowed here in the southeast and both work and school were closed for the day. We made a trip over to the condo to pick up some more stuff, cleaned up and organized around the house. My W and I took a shower while the boys napped and then ML. In the afternoon we hung out as a family.

Tuesday
We had our first MC session after discussing reconciliation. The session went well and we found out that a lot of what we were already doing was what the counselor would have recommended. We are still reconnecting to each other and both realize it will take time and effort. During one conversation after we got home my W asked what I wanted to do about my wedding band. For those that don’t know my W sold her engagement ring and wedding band in order to pay half of her condo lease since she was a stay at home mom when we separated. I told W that I wanted a new ring, I didn’t want to wear my old ring because I didn’t want to see it as a constant reminder of what happened. I asked W what she wanted to do about a ring and she said she just wanted an eternity band. I didn’t realize it was important to my W for us to wear rings to signify our marriage but I am glad that it is important to her.

The rest of the afternoon we hung out at the house due to the winter storm. After dinner and putting the boys to bed W and I snuggled on the couch and watched some shows. We headed up to bed and I gave W a massage before snuggling and falling asleep.

Wednesday
W’s office was open and she went into work and dropped boys off at school so I could work from home. We texted back and forth during the day and it felt good to be in contact on a regular basis with my W again. During lunch I went out and picked up some flowers for W. This is something that I didn’t do when we were married. After work W picked up the boys and was going to stop by the condo to pick up a few things. She called when she got to the condo and said that she just wanted to touch base and let me know she was there. She got home and I gave her a hug and kiss when she walked through the door. She went upstairs to change and saw the flowers that I put on the bathroom counter for her. She was surprised and happy that I got them for her. After the boys went to bed we were talking and during the conversation W said that she is afraid of being hurt. I was surprised when she said this but she explained that when she was having her A she wasn’t in the position of being hurt. She stated that she knows how much she hurt me. I told her that I understand and that I feel we need to be vulnerable to being hurt. Being vulnerable allows us to stay open and true to each other so that we don’t shut down and close each other out just out of fear.

General Thoughts
We have been more affectionate than we ever were in the past and it feels good. My W has done a lot of little things over the past few days that make me feel better about my decision to proceed forward. Her phone is not constantly in her hand like it was during the A. If she picks it up and reads something I don’t ask or say anything. However, unlike before she now makes comments to me about what people are saying. Our communication is more open and engaging than ever before. We are talking about sensitive topics but neither of us feels attacked, or that one is digging at the other. Overall I am glad that I made the decision to work on my M. I realize that there will be ups and downs but marriages take work and I am willing to do the work required to have a better M that we had before.

[sarahani]

Kemper! I had tears rolling down my eyes as I read your post. Congratulations for all of your hard work and I wish you well. Out of curiosity how did your boys react?

[Kemper]

Thank you sarahani.

The conversation with the boys was relatively short. My W and I sat down with them on the couch and explained that we would all be living together again. We let them know that mommy and daddy love each other and also love them. We asked if they had any questions. Our oldest asked if we could get his toys from the condo. We let them know that we would be getting everything from the condo and bringing it all back to the house. The transition for the boys has been interesting to watch. I have noticed that their behavior has been more in line with how they acted around my W vs. how they acted when they were with me. We need to get them back into their routines and provide the structure that they need to help them feel secure now and in the future.

Journaling:

Last night my company had a movie night where employees and their families could go see the movie of their choice at a local cinema. My W and I took the boys to see Tangled. When we got to the cinema we picked up our popcorn, soda, candy, and proceeded in to the theatre to look for seats. I asked my W where she wanted to sit and she said that she didn’t care but that she wanted to sit next to me. The movie was cute and the boys enjoyed it. My W and I held hands during the movie and as I sat there I realized this is the first time we had ever been to a movie as a family.

We left the cinema and headed home. My W and I were holding hands in the car and while driving my mind was racing. I was replaying conversations from the past few weeks, thinking about our situation, thinking about the A, wondering if I made the right decision to proceed forward with rebuilding my M.

After getting home we put the boys to bed and went downstairs, snuggled on the couch and watched a show. W was tired so we headed up to bed. I started a movie on my laptop to help W fall asleep. She has a thing about needing sounds on to help her fall asleep, but it can’t be the radio. While the movie was playing I laid in bed staring at the ceiling while my mind kept racing. Nothing was really said and my W turned to the other side to go to sleep. A little while later, still not tired I turned off the movie to put another one on. When I turned the movie off W rolled over thinking I was turning it off. I let her know I was putting another movie on to watch since I wasn’t tired. After I got the movie setup W smacked her lips together in a gesture for me to give her a kiss. I gave her a kiss and she closed her eyes to fall asleep.

I was frustrated because my W didn’t say goodnight, and seemed a little distant. I came onto the boards and started reading a little bit and realized that I was probably being needy and I wasn’t justified since I didn’t say goodnight either, and I myself was probably the one being distant. I finally fell asleep but woke up this morning with my mind still racing.

W is going to a girlfriends house tonight and spending the night. I was just getting out of bed as W left for work and we chatted for a little bit. I got the boys ready for school, gave them breakfast and we headed out. On our way to school W called to see how everything went with the boys since they were upset when she left. We chatted for a little bit and then said to each other to have a good day. I told her that I would talk to her later since she has training today. She said that she would have her phone and I could text her, and I let her know that she could text me too. I said goodbye and she said I love you. I told her that I loved her too. The phone interaction made me feel a little better but my mind continues to race.

What is my mind racing about?

Mainly about my feelings. I am comparing how my ex-GF made me feel vs. how my W makes me feel. I felt more secure in my relationship with my ex-GF, I never had a doubt that she cared and would do anything for me. I don’t feel that same way with my W. I wonder if my W was more attentive to OM and making him feel wanted than she is with me.

The biggest thing that my mind has been racing about has to do with her old boss. My W recently changed jobs where she works. I know that they have texted in the past because she would let him know that she was going to be late for work, etc. When we were talking about reconciliation I asked about him. She said they were just friends and he had a GF, which of course raised a red flag with me because that is what she always said about OM. She told me about a recent text exchange where he had to buy his GF a present for her birthday. He told W that he got her a coach bag last year and he was going to get her another on. W told him not to get another coach bag but instead to get her another type.

I think what started my mind racing was a comment my W made last night on the way to the movies. There are some weird vibes where she works because they have laid off some people in the past few days. Not only did my W change jobs but she was informed yesterday that she would be doing something else based on a training class getting canceled. She told me that she texted her old boss to let him know that she would be doing something different than what she interviewed for originally. Based on what W told me her old boss was shocked and said that he was going to talk to someone to find out more.

After we got home from the movies last night W said that her old boss texted her back and let her know that she has nothing to worry about. W has been concerned that she might be laid off since she is currently in limbo with respect to her jobs.

I have looked at the situation from a couple of different angles. My W and I are just starting down the reconciliation path and I could just be insecure given everything that has happened. I know that I don’t completely trust my W right now and that has an influence. On the flip side it appears that my W has been honest about her interactions with her old boss. However, I have not gone into deep conversations about this person in particular. I also know that if my W did end up going down the same path she did with OM I would be ok on my own. I know that I could be with someone else and that someone else could love me. What really prompted me to write about this was a response I read from Sandi this morning where she said:

I do not believe in couples having "friendships" with the opposite sex when it excludes the S.

I agree 100% with what she said. However, there have not been any interactions with her old boss that I could have been invited to that I know of. For all I know they could go to lunch together during the day but again my mind is probably just racing due to my fears.