They don't get it, until they get it

[beatrice]

Hi, I have been following a lot of threads, and been around, on and off, for a long time. As I heal I find I can once more read others' posts, and sympathise fully with what they are going through.

There is one area where I find myself in disagreement with many other LBS, and that is that I would never resume any kind of relationsihp with my h until the OW was completely out of the picture.

I am full of admiration for those of you who can begin reconciliation without this, but for me, our MLC spouses haven't really got it until they realise it really is the OW or us. People say they are not in a position to insist. Well, yes, and no. For me it is non negotiable, because OW is a symptom of the problem(s) they haven't addressed.

Perhaps it is a sign that I don't really want my h back, I don't thin,k I do at this point. I certainly have no desire to rescue him, or watch and agonise over 'baby steps'.

I am not suggesting btw that those who go this route are wrong - clearly it works for them, and for them it is worth it. Is my posiiton too full of pride? Anyway I thought it would be interesting to see what others think.

[punkin]

Beatrice,

I agree with you about the OW. Band-aide on a gunshot wound and all. It's just another excuse to not deal with the true problem at hand. Also, it's insulting to the LBS that has loved and supported them all the years before.

I also understand how easy that is to say than to DO. When you are dying inside for a scrap of affection from someone you love, you'll pretty much take anything. I see these ASPCA commercials of all these battered and abused pets on TV. They talk of being afraid of the one that they love the most. We should have our own spot on TV for LBS. ASPCLBS.

Do I think you are too full of pride? No. You have just reached that point where you have reached that point. No, I didn't stutter. At the risk of being censored, Sh!t or get off the pot. That's your position. No two ways about it.

Anyway, that's my take on your position, and I admire your strength in holding to it.

[Lorie1964]

I agree that the OW is just a symptom, if not just a band-aid to the problems they need to deal with on their own. I do feel any reconciliation for me would have to be with out OW involved. But, that being said, I can see where being there for H as he breaks free from that R and addiction would be beneficial to the reconciling relationship.

Yes, I said that the OW R is an addiction, because after reading so much about MLC, I believe many of these are just that, an addiction to take the focus off of their own pain.

I do not think you are too proud. I believe you have a lot of respect for yourself and how you should be treated. That is an awesome thing to have, it helps you to keep your moral compass.

[Sanderika]

Hello Ladies,

I think in the beginning the OW are a spontaneous diversion that
quickly becomes addictions. They serve a purpose to the MLC male as an escape from the obligations and sometimes mundane life they have found themselves tied to. Add an awakening moment where they have to face their own mortality and kaboom!

What frequently happens though is these guys find themselves "in love" with these OW. "In love" as defined by their messed up thinking. It will never be an unconditional love like they had with us. OW always have conditions.

Since a MLC male is h*ll bent on freedom and selfishness and living as a 17 year old again, the OW fill the prescription very nicely.

In the beginning these relationships are a rush. As time wears on and the OW become more and more demanding and controlling and psychotic (yes!), the MLC male is very slow to realize he has got himself in one heck of a mess.

Problem is that he cannot break free from his new found lifestyle as hard as he may try for a variety of reasons (pride, ego, OW won't let go). Thus the bouts begin of clarity and foggy visions that continuously have them in turmoil.

Most of these relationships do not last. They have been built on lies and cheating. Insecurity and trust issues will be the end of it sooner or later.

I was not one who denied my H a relationship. For us it was a necessary ingredient to achieve the friendship we now have. Back in 2005 the days were filled with hatred and anger. In the beginning of 2006 we began to re-create a friendship, I am grateful for this in so many ways as I think we are better off for it today. When we started to rebuild our relationship the situation with the OW had not gone too far. Before the middle of 2006 that relationship had taken on a life of it's own. She is still in the picture.

I do not advocate having relations with a WS as a method to reconcile. I believe it is at the discretion of the individuals involved to decide if this is right or wrong for them.

In hindsight, the path I chose which I was certain would save my marriage did not. I am not going to have any regrets. That would be counterproductive to all that I have learned on this journey.

I am now beginning to believe that the only way to reconciling is to "let them go" and live "as if" right from the start. The sooner the LBS learns to assume the role that the marriage is not going to be repaired the sooner the WAS will feel the pain of having left something wonderful behind and only then after huge amounts of time has passed will it be possible to heal that which has been broken.

In my situation, once the OW had gotten a stronghold it was too late to save the marriage as it was. I still tried to DB like crazy. Without an OW in the picture, the marriage stands a far better chance at recovery. If I had this part to do over, I guess I would have given up then and stopped fighting it.

Sorry if this reads a bit scattered. I typed it out in haste.

Sanderika

[WCW]

I think it is something based on the circumstances in each sitch.

I remember my whole life thinking that there was no way I would ever stay with a guy that cheated. Until it happened to me.

Would I be stronger to cut H from my life and begin again? or would I be stronger to stay and understand the whole mess?

Would I be a doormat for staying, or the rock of strength?

The ow in my sitch deals in the same trade, the same business as H and I, it's a small world and mostly impossible to ever expect that there would be zero contact and her completely out of the picture.

And of course there is the people that say - keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[ericmsant2]

Beatrice

I will make this brief.

I agree 100% with your stance. If OP is involved then IMO, reconciliation is really not possible. I say this from the perspective of a "traditional M".

It is one thing to allow the MLCer the time to "grieve" or "get over" the OP. It is something completely different to try and reconcile while the MLCer is in the midst of a R with OP.

Just my 2 cents.

Eric

[Augtan]

Sanderika, the addiction part is sooo true! Our therapist said that an affair is like crack cocaine, it is just as addicive. She said that my XH working with OW was like putting a crack addict (after going thru some treatment) back into a crack house with people smoking crack all around him, he is never going to stay clean or succeed, period!! You have to completely remove the addict from the thing they are addicted to or it is near impossible to break the addiction. Well, in my case due to the need for a job to eat, support our three kids, etc., my XH had to go back to the crack house (his place of work) and went back to doing the crack (the OW), left us for her and we are now divorced. I never knew he went back to OW, he kept it very well hidden and was a master manipulator and liar by this point. He left us and I still believed he was leaving for reasons other than the OW, I know now he had gone back to her months before he actually left for good. I wish I would have caught him doing the crack again (OW), cause then I would have rather starved than had him go back to his place of work (he would have eventually gotton another job, I am sure, and family could have helped til then), cause I think that time I would have really believed it was an addiction and leaving there would have been the only way to save our marriage, hindsight is 20/20! OW dumped him a year ago and he has been in and out of the tunnel ever since, never really coming back to me, but making steps toward that, then pulling away again.

If I had known forsure OW was back, I would have never, ever let him cake-eat and go back and forth, I know that with a third person in your marriage there is no clarity, there is just no way you can see your marriage clearly with someone from the outside telling you that being with them can be and will be so much better, especially when the person listening to the OW is in MLC and wants to live in a fantasyland of no responsibility as it is, they will be drawn to the OW because they are offering a perfect life with all the stuff outside the box of reality...no bills together, no kids together, no history, no baggage, no nothing but the bubble they create, but that bubble bursts eventually. The MLC'er just doesn't want to believe that will happen and you the LBS can never convince them.

A

[beatrice]

I agree about the addiciton, but believe we have to look deeper and understand why people become addicted, and choose to stay addicted.

There is a debate about addcitive personalities, but all of the addicts I know [and I have worked as a volunteer] are very damaged people. The addiction of choice makes them feel good, better than they do in their daily lives.

A very wise person told me that if the addictive substance wasn't really enjoyable they wouldn't do it. It isn't until they are able to want to break free and have the support to do so, that they can give it up. This means facing the loss of the comfort from addiciton, the withdrawal symptoms, facing the mess they have made while addicted and dealing with what caused the addictive behaviour.

It is rare that families can provide this support without help. Some wives, and ex wives seem to be able to provide that support. I don't think however that it is as simple as whether we love them enough.

While I agree that they need to break free from the OW to 'recover' I also think until they have lived through their crisis the addictive behaviour will continue. In this it is different form a 'normal' affair. The OW is a symptom, and they may well find another. Just as many addicts give up one substance and take another, if they don't deal with it fully. Gambling gets substituted for drink for example.

So yes, your h went back to the crack house, but he may well have found another crack house if you had kept him away form that one. It isn't, imo the particular OW, but the need for the rush.

[kissak]

So yes, your h went back to the crack house, but he may well have found another crack house if you had kept him away form that one. It isn't, imo the particular OW, but the need for the rush.

I agree. If it hadnt been that OW he would have found another some place else.

[Augtan]

I agree that they need to deal with what has caused them to seek out the feeling the affair or drug or gambling gives them in the first place, absoultley!! My ex is also an alcholholic, so we deal with that on and off too and have since I have known him.

They have so many issues and are very damaged. But, although there are many of us on here and many people having or that had affairs, I don't think finding someone to cheat with you as a married man or woman is super easy as it seems, especially for certain men or women. While I know he very well might have done that, it would not have been as easy as it was for him had he not had her right there waiting to pounce and take him back, forgive all she knew he has said and done to her, etc. She has no self-esteem or self-worth, thus the sleeping with and pursuing a married man thing and waiting in the wings while he was with me for over 2 years!!! Not all woman or men do this thing and I don't think you find one at every place of business, maybe I live in la-la land but I chose to see the good and not the bad all the time.

I will never really know, cause it was easy for him, she was easy in all ways, super ugly and a whore, but that made it all the easier for him. I just know that with any OW or OM in the picture, there is no way to see your marriage clearly and to evaluate the real chance of making the marriage work if there is a third person in the marriage. I believe that had she dumped him before we were divorced, we would still be together, because I think he would have realized his mistake and wanted to get help for us, he would still be and is in MLC, but we would have had a chance had he been willing to get professional help, but since OW was right there, he didn't see the need, she would save him and make him feel better, why work on something that doesn't feel good when there is something waiting for you that does feel good and it is all about the MLC'er so they don't (all the stuff we have said on here a million times) do what normal people would do, they run!! If he hadn't had the OW to run to, knowing him like I do, he would have stayed and worked on our marriage in therapy.

But, he didn't and now this is where we are, he is still messed up in MLC and I am moving forward and not looking back anymore! I will always love him and pray for him, cause I still believe the man I married is in there somewhere, but I am not putting my life on hold anymore. He is on his own journey and I am on mine.

A