Deju vu, but new to the online forum...round 2

[Denver_2010]

MJ - I need this advice as anyone here, but you have to stay positive man. I know that it is hard, but if we think bad thoughts, we will act them out whether we know it or not. Have you read Divorce Remedy? Read the chapter on "act as if". You need to practice more of that... as do I.

Also, you have agreed to go with no lawyers and yes, that will speed up the process. I haven't been as critical of your decision to physically separate as others have been, but here, I have to be a little critical.

First, I don't know if you've read many of my threads, but I am a lawyer. NOT a divorce attorney. Just a little disclaimer there. Anyway, one of the most notable sayings in my profession is "a lawyer who has himself for a client, is a fool" or something along those lines. The point is, we lawyers are taught NOT to represent ourselves when we face legal problems. Why? Bc we cannot separate what is legally in our best interest from our emotional responses to what is happening with our legal issue. That applies in all legal situations, criminal, divorce etc.

Why would this be any different for the non-lawyer? It is NOT. Getting a lawyer to represent you does not have to be an act of war. Retaining a lawyer is only an act of protecting yourself and making sure that you are treated fairly. As I told my W when she responded angrily to finding out that I have consulted a D lawyer, "I am not a divorce attorney and I want to make sure that we BOTH end up with an fair outcome if we go in direction of D".

That is all true. However...

I also know that I can somewhat delay things with the help of a D lawyer. I can make the lawyer out to be the bad guy when I disagree with what W may want during course of D. This helps deflect some blame from me if this happens in my situation. If it comes to this, I'm going to tell my lawyer that I want her to delay things as long as possible without making me look like I'm being an a*s to W. I'm also going to tell lawyer that I want MC, maybe even that Retroville (spelling) program, before D finalized. The bottom line is, a D lawyer can actually help you delay things which gives W more chance to question her decision. The easier you make this for her, the more likely it is going to happen!

My DB Coach also advised me not to help W with D or LS in any way. I plan on following this advice and I suggest that you do the same.

Just my 2 cents.

Denver

[sarahani]

MJ:

Thank you, you are right it does push him away from me when I do fight with him and that is the hardest challenge I am facing right now is STOPPING THE FIGHTS! It is one of the worst things I have gone through in my life as you well know. The reason I fight with him are for various reasons like about the kids, he doesn't want to implement a visiting schedule with the kids which is hard for me because I can't keep doing things for him when he does not do a thing for me. Most of my anger comes from how he left me and the kids, no car, no money, and no roof over our heads, I was a SAHM. He said he can't provide for us anymore because he isn't financially able to, yet he is moving out from his moms to his own apartment. There are a lot of issues other than the OW with us and this came as a shock to me because we had a relatively good marriage.

I know what you mean about S continuing to have an A and living with them, that is where I crossed the line too. Trust me I know the pain it is very raw still and it's been going on for close to a year. Every time he walked out the door I couldn't stop the sobbing because I knew he went to OW.

Thank you with the encouraging words I plan to really put an effort to stop all negativities between us. I am considering going dark although it will be tough with the kids there are ways I can go around it

I wish you luck in your sitch.

[mj144]

Sarah,
Comments were from Denver, not me.

Denver,
I realize that I may need an attorney even with mediation. I appreciate the advice.

I guess the main thing I need to focus on is getting a job. When I do that, I will have somethiong I can really focus on. I will also decide if I will move back and let her make a move if she wants. I'll just tell her I can't stand being away from the kids so I don't come across as not being confidwent in my decision since I told her I was moving because I needed to be away from her to detach and GAL ouside of her.

[sarahani]

Thank you for cathching that MJ sorry my post was for Denver

[MrBond]

"she has always had the upper hand. She was pulling the trigger. She played phone tag with a mediator the week of Christmas. I have only spent 1 night at my apartment since my W was away on a ski trip this weekend. I am headed back tonight and we'll see how the week goes. I can always move back, but then what if she does pull the trigger. Then I am screwed."

First off you have to live with the reality of the situation. That's one of the most important things that Coach taught me. If you get D it will not be the end of the world. You will still be alive, kicking and you will go on.

The whole time going through this you are letting fear guide you. You are letting fear give your W control. Is that attractive to a woman? Do you think your W wants someone who will do whatever she wants you to? Hell no. She will only love someone she respects.

Her getting P.O'd whether you move out or not is what's got you stuck in place with fear. Right now you're the guy in the film Halloween with the murderer hacking away at your door and your back to the wall. You've got a choice, either you stay and be slaughtered or you grab something and fight. A little dramatic visual, but you need to start standing up for yourself without the fear of reprisal from her.

Look at the people who have had successes. They only did so when they started living for themselves and not for their spouse.

If you want to move away to be away from her, then do it. But don't do it because it's what SHE wants. She's bullying you and you don't realize it.

[mj144]

So are you saying I should just start to expect D and if it doesn't happen then it is a plus?

I am scared. I'm scared of losing her. I'm scared to raise my kids by myself. I'm scared to be alone. I'm scared she will find someone else. I'm scared to lose the dream house and community we built 2 1/2 years ago. I'm scared to death of living another day without her.

I don't know how to go about not being so. I hope being out of the house will help that. That is yet to be seen.

I come to the house every morning to take the kids to school since I am unemployed. This AM, I was getting the kids ready to go out the door and ask her if she'd like for me to start her car in the garage. She says no and not 2 mins. later, she goes out and does it herself. I ask her about it and she simply says she can handle it. She had the dog out this morning and he gets surrounded by coyotes. My D7 tells me the story. I ask my wife about it and one word answers. Now she had moved beyond this type of behavior when I had discussed the whole move out and she was back to being cordial to/of me. Now since I lost my job, it is like she has built the wall back up and it feels like it is even higher than it was before.

She went skiing for 2 nights with neighbors and she opened up to 3 of the women on the block about our sitch. So far, 2 have told me that she has said she is done and they didn't see any light as far as saving the M. What do I take from that? Is this sign for me to give up? I don't want to, but if she has now told her family and my neighbors that it is over, what is there for me to do? She told me she doesn't love me and she'd be a fool to try again. Is this where I don't believe anything she says?

My only hope again is to find a new job so that I can put that aside and pray for a miracle...and I don't pray.

[Denver_2010]

MJ - This isn't about giving up. This is about being realistic about your situation as it is RIGHT NOW. Not one minute in the past, not one minute in the future, RIGHT THIS INSTANT. And that reality for you and I my friend, is that our W's do not want to be married to us. That is the reality right this instant. Can that change? Yes it can. This is where we find hope. Your W used to be in love with you and she obviously changed her mind. What that means is that she is capable of changing her mind back. Again, we find hope here. But we have to accept reality as it is in the present moment.

So, what we HAVE to do after accepting that reality, is try to find away to accept that and find happiness for ourselves. How do we do that? Detach from that which makes us unhappy... our W's current actions, and GAL. Also, we look at the present moment reality and decide whether or not we want to take it as an opportunity for personal growth. This is all we can do MJ. We cannot control our W's, their choices, their feelings, or their actions. So we need to leave them alone with the consequences of those choices, feelings, and actions, and HOPE that they begin to see us in a new light and change their minds on the demise of our Ms.

Trust me MJ, I know that this does not sound encouraging. I wish that there was some magic potion that we could all use on our W/H's to fix our situations. There just isn't and we both need to come to terms with that. We practice DB ideas and hope and/or pray for a good outcome.

[MrBond]

"So are you saying I should just start to expect D and if it doesn't happen then it is a plus?"

You don't "expect" a D. You face the reality that it could happen. Think of it like having cancer. You know that one possibility is death. You acknowledge it and come to peace with it. Then you get up and see what steps you can do to prevent it. Face your fear of D.

"I am scared. I'm scared of losing her. I'm scared to raise my kids by myself. I'm scared to be alone. I'm scared she will find someone else. I'm scared to lose the dream house and community we built 2 1/2 years ago. I'm scared to death of living another day without her."

And that's why you fail.

"What do I take from that? Is this sign for me to give up? I don't want to, but if she has now told her family and my neighbors that it is over, what is there for me to do? She told me she doesn't love me and she'd be a fool to try again. Is this where I don't believe anything she says?"

No you stop analyzing every little thing she does and start doing living your life.

Take care of your priorities first. Get a job, build back your self-esteem. Stop thinking about her and detach. Let her go. It doesn't mean you give up. It means that you aren't going to be paralyzed by every single move SHE makes.

If you don't believe in God, then what do you believe in? If you can believe in something, believe in yourself. Look at your kids and become the man that they can look up to at the end of the day. How do you think they would feel if they heard you just now. That you're afraid of they're mom. Is that something you want them to spread around at school? That daddy's scared?

[mj144]

Thanks Denver. Thanks Mr. Bond. For some reason you are predominantly the only 2 who really stay connected with me. I kinda wish I could get sandi to jump in on my threads, too. Nice to have a woman's touch.

I know what you are both saying is spot on. I guess my helplessness is componded by my job sitch. I was feeling pretty good about things going into the New Year even though I had decided to move out until I got canned.

I surely wish I hadn't wasted my 6 coaching sessions and had them about now. Do you think MWD does any pro bono work for those of us in dire need?

I guess I can take solace in the fact that I know what I want. I want to find a new job and I want to make my marriage whole again. Somewhere to start, huh? It can only get better from here.

[Denver_2010]

MJ - Again, I really wish that I could tell you what you want to hear. I wish you could tell me what I want to hear. Trust me man, I know how you feel. I am doing a little better, but I still have moments of complete despair. I come hear so to tell others, like you, the things that I know are the truth. I do it so that I can try to stay focused myself. Bc it is hard.

Focus on finding a job right now. That's what I'd try to do if i were you.