On Figurative Ledge - Talk Me Down?

[Denver_2010]

How awful and odd that we woke up in the exact same place today. And even stranger that your story is almost identical to mine. I understand EXACTLY how you feel and you helped clarify it for me. It's like the wounded helping the wounded, but here are my thoughts if they help...

I understand the whole EA thing turning to PA right after the spouse moves out. I wonder if it was an A all the time as my H tells me it is "just a friend" any time it is mentioned, though other friends confirm it has gone PA. Here's what I have come to and why I think you are confused like me - In our spouses minds they never had an A. They are actually being "honest" with us and themselves in their world what I now call "Crazy Town." They justified the supportive friend as exactly that and could not recognize that there is even such a thing as an EA. The OM/OW was their strength to exit our lives, as they probably could not have done it on their own, but they don't see that. Then minutes after leaving, it went PA. Again, in their minds they never cheated on us. Now they are physically gone and "single" so that's how they rationalize any guilt they may feel. But why are we confused? Because to us, an EA is in many ways worse than a PA. It's sharing intimacy, and it started well before they physically left. It hurts more that they were sharing the deepest parts of their soul - dreams, hurts, wishes, etc. - with someone other than us. And we try to blame ourselves and relieve them of responsibility. Still I bet you obsess and picture them together now don't you? It drives me crazy, and makes me physically ill. How do I cope with that? I try to look at the glass half full - Best diet ever.

Dead on Scott. You hit the nail on the head in every respect. Thanks for you very thoughtful reply.

The other major issue for you is exactly the same for me too - do you set boundaries, or just continue LRT and practice patience. Although many tell us to set boundaries, I completely understand that your biggest fear is that if you play that card, it feels like all or nothing.

Do you ever say to yourself "But if I let go, then did I ever really love them?" And it keeps you in the same place because you don't want to be the one who "let go." It hurts to love someone who is hurting you. Yet, as we practice the LRT it feels as if nothing is happening and what we wouldn't give to be inside the spouse's head sometimes, just to know for certain...is there hope? Do they still feel love for us? Are they confused and will eventually find their way back? Are they waiting for us to call it quits so they don't have to feel any more guilt? But we can not know any of these things, and that's exactly what is killing us. So we imagine pulling the trigger like friends and family say, but quietly we wait and hurt.

So where are we today? We both woke up sad and confused. We've read the books, we've talked to friends, we've posted here. So much of the advice is right, but at the end of the day you know it is only you walking in your shoes. You crave clear direction but know that you can only give it to yourself.

This is why DBing is so hard I suppose. I have read on here so many times that the keys are PATIENCE and TIME. I have been cutting and pasting to a running journal the posts that I think have good advice that is also practical to my situation. I try to review that journal, now over 50 pages long, every few days to give myself strength. It does help and I suggest you do the same.

1. Regardless of the outcome, we must focus on ourselves. If the spouse returns we will be better people at that point - four ourselves first and for them second. If they don't come back, at least we have our feet on the road to recovery.

You are right Scott. But it also a chance to improve ourselves. Find out where we messed up in M, acknowledge those issues, and fix them. To not only come out of this okay with or without our S, but to come out of it as better people.

2. I worry that I am damaged and can never love again and that spouse will always have been the "one." I fear loneliness. I am NOT doomed to be alone unless I choose it for myself. I was NOT the complete reason my spouse left even IF I have things I can improve upon. I am NOT garbage put to the side of the curb. And I get how you feel W is "disrespecting" you by carrying on A. Even though they are gone, you feel like they are cheating on you now, and wonder how someone who loved you and that you loved can do that. It's like stabbing us over and over and you wonder who the hell that person is. They are like a stranger to us, and no amount of logic can explain it in a way that helps us understand so that we feel emotionally healthy enough to move on.

This is why we have to detach from our S Scott. We both need to do this. It does get easier with time though. But, as my weekend has demonstrated, there are going to be bumps in the road along the way.

I also struggled with blaming myself 100% for failure in M and W leaving. I have been working on that, and now know that we both contributed. I still struggle at times though bc it is so hard to accept that I could have made wiser choices that could have prevented situation from getting to this stage, yet I didn't. But I can't change the past. I can only learn from it and apply it to bettering my future. And yes, I will have future love... with or without W. I will be better prepared for it too. As will you Scott.

3. Knowing that you can not "make" your W do the things you so desperately want them to do is frustrating, confusing, and depressing. You wonder if anything you are doing is right. You beat yourself up for not having the strength to really move on. And it kills you that it seemed so easy for them to have moved on. I bet you have googled the statistics about how many of those spouses return, just like me. Looking for a reason to have hope. I have come to the conclusion that you can allow yourself to always have hope, but it can not be all consuming. Focusing on yourself does not mean that you have "thrown in the towel." Accept that you have "hope" but also have "hope" that you can be complete and happy on your own. Know that at the end of the day we will both eventually pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and life will go on. It's like the line from the movie..."That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger"

Absolutely... These are good words Scott. Put them in a journal somewhere so that you can refer back to them when those times of feeling weak come.

4. In a strange way, we must believe in fate. That's the only way I can explain that I have happened upon you and your story, and it so frighteningly mirrors mine in detail and it's happening right now. The only explanation is that we may derive strength from each other. And the way that we may believe in fate will give us the strength to let go. Our spouses must be free to find themselves and let the A run it's course. I do know I would never want my H back because he felt like I "manipulated" or "guilted" him into it. Let's face it, if our spouses don't return to us with open and honest hearts, and if they are not new enlightened people like we are becoming, it could never be good or truly happy. Who would want that? And if we really have loved them all these many years, we must let the road take us where it leads, even if we feel lost. It may feel like we are doing "nothing," but by employing LRT, we are healing ourselves. If it impacts the spouse in a positive way, then that remains to be seen.

Again, exactly right. I have also been working at turning my sitch over to fate or whatever higher power exists out there. I have not been much of a godly person in the past. In fact, I have always described myself as agnostic with slight leaning toward athieism. But as I've described to others, this event in my life has almost been like a near death experience for me. It is causing me to revisit my views on god and fate. I have actually been going to church with my FIL for the past 2 months. I started going mainly bc I needed to feel something positive bc I was so much in a depth of despair and misery that I couldn't stand it. But as I've been going, I have started to doubt my lack of faith. I know that this sounds weird, but it is true. There is something good, true, and comforting about putting your destiny in the hands of a higher power. I'm not completely there yet, but it is something that I am working towards.

5. Patience is difficult. It feels like you are doing nothing and have no control. I try to remind myself that my life is not happening TO me. I am free to choose my actions and how to spend the hours of my day. If I spend it obsessing about H, he is controlling me. Not fair. We are both getting close to the stage of anger/revenge as I see it. Little moments where you wish karma to "get even" with your spouse. Or worse, you fantasize about how to get the OM/OW out of the picture altogether. Maybe fate deals them their comeuppance and a greyhound bus inadvertently runs them down as they cross the street. Horrible, I know, but I've been there. Of course, all you get from those thoughts is a feeling of guilt. But the anger is starting to boil under the surface. Let it out to people you trust. They will not judge, and you will feel a little better.

I understand how your anger may be boiling up Scott. Also understand how you want to let it out to others. This is something that I choose to keep to myself though. Why? Bc of what you said, it gets us no where and serves no purpose. Instead, when I feel that, I TRY to focus on the love that I have for my W. I don't want to 'defend' my W's actions, but I also do not want to disparage her. I am standing for my M right now. That is MY choice. In doing that, I feel that i am also standing for my W and the hurt that she is also experiencing.

Do you have unconditional love for your H Scott? Something to consider. The answer that I came to is that I DO love my W unconditionally. Isn't this what true love is? Can I love my W without the expectation of something in return. It is a difficult concept. But if I come out of this with a better understanding what true love is for me, then I come out of it a better person. And I will know how to better show this love to my W or someone else if I am lucky enough to have it for someone else.

I can only guess by your username "Denver" that you are nowhere near me. Sadly, I could see us having a drink together and sharing some strength in those weak moments. Thanks for being their for me on my thread. I hope I have helped you today. It has helped me refocus by sharing with you.

Good Scott. This is what this forum is all about. I think that everyone here truly cares about each other's situations. There are many 'vets' who do not have active situations. Yet they spend time reading our thread and giving advice to us who are actively experiencing hurt and despair. I cannot say enough about the respect I have for these people. I would name them, but would then feel badly for leaving some out. I hope to someday be able to do the same for someone else.

Yes Scott. It would be great to be able to meet up and have our own personal support group. I will follow your sitch though and offer my thoughts as they come.

Stay strong, patient, and focused on the goals at hand Scott. Things will be better in TIME. The only way through this... is through it.