DB'ing but it's a daily struggle - need support.

[habitacker]

I did not mean that each time my wife went out would have a story that would mean anything to you. It is just that each event has a story of its own. Nothing to help you in your sitch.

At first I will admit that when she started doing things on her own, the first thing I thought was A. Not so.

1. movie she was by herself. small town, easy to confirm without any snooping. Info comes to you through gossip.
2.Ultimat fighting thing was that someone she was working with was competing and a whole group went. She felt obligated and it was just a goofy thing for a group of girls from work to do. Also confirmed by small town gossip.
3.The baking session was just something new and different.
4. Her dad gave her a gun. So she is doing the safety courses and stuff like that. She did not ask for it, he kind of pushed it on her. He told me this. He had offered to me a few years back, but I spaced it off because I didn't care for it with kids in the house.
This gun thing still confuses me. She didn't tell me about it. Her dad spilled the beans. He was surprised she did not tell me. She has had it in her car because she doesn't know what to do with it. She has never had a ticket in her life, and got a speeding ticket yesterday with a gun in her car. I just don't know why she took it in the first place. I am sure her dad pushed it on her because we live in the country and he is the type that thinks she needs something like that.

I told her I could hide it in my shop up high away from the kids, but she said she would figure out something to do with it. No ammunition. Why have it? Why take courses? And why seek concealed weapons permit?

This gun subject has really turned my attention to her maybe having something wrong physically. Or it is just bad timing by her dad, or she didn't want to offend him some how.

Anyway, I just wanted to give a quik run down of these things to show you that they did not have any meaning other than a change of her lifestyles. If this is what you were asking?

But, her doing these things that are way out of character makes me feel EXACTLY, WORD FOR WORD, like your last 2 paragraphs.

I hope and pray that this is just our wifes way of getting some space and breathing, and actually not moving on without us.

There seems that there can be a positive or a negative to everything they do. We can't figure it out or judge them because we might have the wrong idea. This I believe is one of the reasons everyone tells us to detach.

[ScaredinCanada]

Another back step...got arguing about the R shortly before my W left for work. She told she "doesn't want to be with me anymore" along with some other things and I was frustrated. Told her that I'm trying to fix myself and make permanent changes of the things I was doing wrong. She said she knows, but she "doesn't want to try anymore" she said I've had 15 years and I didn't do anything with it.

So I got mad and told her she doesn't care about me and to just get out of my life. I could see it hurt her, but she was on her way to the car for work. It sucked, I felt bad about it immediately after. I also called her a zombie, said she is emotionless and seems to be just waiting for the oppurtunity to leave.

I know this is all wrong, and I need to get a grip. I'm going to apologize to her when she gets home and I'm going to try not to speak to her for the rest of the weekend.

If it weren't for my kids - I wish I could just die. I'm not cut out for this...

I keep thinking that if she does leave I hope she never finds happiness ever again...I don't think it's how I really feel it's just the anger and frustration right now.

Sorry to fall back again...I just wanted to journal a bit.

[habitacker]

As for the waiting around for us to stop loving them? If this is true, we have to look at this as a positive.

While they wait for us to stop loving them, we need to make them fall in love with us again. somehow. Even with that big wall of fog in our way.

I know I can outlast my wife, and it sounds like you can to. We have to give it all we got. I think we are the only ones who have a clear image of what is at stake. We are the only ones who know the changes we have made. I have to accept that she can't see into my hear and mind and know what I truly am now.

This I have to remember, to remind me of why it seems that she can not try right now. She doesn't trust what she sees.

[habitacker]

Remember, I don't know anymore than you about this cr*p, But you know you have to control these actions. You said it yourself that you know better.

I say, stop making the moves. Stop trying to make the moves.

As for saying your sorry about it, hopefully a veteran can help you get out of this backslide the best way possible.

[ScaredinCanada]

Thanks Habit, just reading your comments is helping me to calm down and re-focus. I appreciate it.

I know I can do it, and I agree I can out wait my W.

I do wonder how she is going to love me again - because she keeps telling me that she doesn't love and doesn't want to be with me, so I can only imagine how often she's reminding herself of the same?!

[Harrier]

Harrier,

Please explain? I guess there is potential for conflict of interest?

Should I tell my W not go with her or should I just call her and tell the C that I don't think it's a good idea?

Well, I think it's somewhat unethical on the part of your C. Whether it may or may not be officially unethical, I'm not sure on that.

However, C will essentially be in the middle. You will tell the C things about W, W will tell C things about you. C may let confidential things slip in your session or your Ws. Or C may not, but you will never know if she does or not. Also your C has to be impartial to both and your C may have already come to a conclusion about you and your situation which could be unfair to your wife.

My therapist told me that he is kinda in my corner on this. How can you trust your C to be in your corner if the C is also in your wife's corner and vice versa.

I think it's a bad position for you, your wife and the counselor.
Or it could be some weird for of MC. Your W has issues she needs to work on, you have issues you need to work on. To be effective you should each have your own therapist.

Of course that's just my opinion.

[Denver_2010]

I think that Harrier is absolutely right. I can't think of a worse idea than to have the same IC. JMO as well.

[habitacker]

Do you put yourself in the situations for her to tell you that she doesn't love you? Such as, starting R talk. The pressure you put on her might be causing this.

My wife told me that I am like a roommate. A roommate that she doesn't even like. ouch.

My point is, if you disliked someone and did not want to be around them, but they just kept getting in your face, pressuring you to do something that you didn't want to do, How would you react? You might say something that isn't true or something mean just to get them the heck away from you. When she says she doesn't love you might just be the words she is using. Doesn't have to mean it is true. She thinks it is. Remember, she is in a fog.

Remember, believe nothing you hear, and only 50% of what you see.

I might be wrong, but it seems to me that there is a positive and a negative way to look at almost everything they do. We always seem to find the negative, which seems the most logical, but are they being logical? I don't think so.

Plus, the positive side is the only place for hope, so try to focus on that. What good can come from focusing on the negative. If everything is as negative as we see it, we are sh*t out of luck anyway. Right?

This coming from a man who 4 months ago was the most pessimistic son of a b**tch on the earth.

[mj144]

Hearing it from the W is bad enough, but reading things I shouldn't be reading and seeing it to other people I think is worse. I saw a text from my W to my SIL where my SIL was asking about what to get me for Christmas, my W tells her to get me a 2 bit so that I leave her alone. Then I read an email to her and they were talking about a night they are planning out in a couple weeks when I am watching my daughters. Now that we don't live together her comment was something like now that she is single and I am watching the D, she doesn't have to get permission from 'the bastard' to go out. Now that was downright painful to read. Granted, I shouldn't have been snooping, but what is that all about?

I think a lot about how angry they get at us as if we have done the things vindictively or purposefully to them that they were unhappy with. Like we sabotaged the M on purpose. That along with the fact that they don't believe that we will make permanent changes. I mean for crying out loud, why in the hell wouldn't we want to make the changes. We love them and want to be with them.

I feel so alone at times with my thoughts and then I read posts from you guys(habitacker, SIC, Denver) and realize that we are all in such similar sitches except there is no A in mine, but the behavior from the W is the same. I continue with the fear and thought of how she is just going about her life, going on ski weekends with the girls like this weekend, planning on other nights out with the girls, referring to herself as single and although time is supposed to be our ally, how is it not that time is also having the opposite effect of them getting more comfortable without us. I guess that is what detaching and GAL is all about. Apparently something I haven't quite done.

I just need to get a new job quickly and put that albatross away before I can even think that she will start looking at me in even the slightest positive light. Next week will be the first whole week I am out of the house, so I am hoping that I can start truly detaching and GAL.

[tjack45]

Think of your situation like this... You in one room, your W in another, with a door in between the rooms. In your room their is yelling, screaming accusing, anger... terrible things, why would she want to come in there? She doesn't have to deal with all that crap in her room. Sometimes you just keep pushing on that door to get in her room (guess what? that door is a pull, so the harder you push, the tighter that door shuts) She hears you beating on the door and is annoyed why you just don't get it.
Time to start to get it. Find what makes you happy, work your way through your frustrations and let go of the anger. You are going to be just fine regardless of how your sitch turns out.. Make your room so damn interesting and fun to be in that she can't help herself open the door and see what the hell is going on.

Time, patience, knowledge and accepting reality are all things that will help you through this. Change the way you look at things and the things you look at change.