Am I piecing? Just can't tell 2...

[Harrier]

Actually my wife and IC have both told me that the "of course not, everything is fine" is not the answer she needs to or wants to hear.

Saying everything is fine is a huge reason, I'm in the mess I am in. What my W and IC do say is that don't play games, be direct, if something is bothering me say something BEFORE I get mad.

However, sometimes if I don't do that, gets mad it's already too late. At that point my only focus should really be not letting my wife see me mad. I'd rather not be mad at all, but we are human. I think that it's okay to be mad, sad, frustrated, upset etc. I would like to reduce those things that make me angry, which is my goal.

Sorry you are having a crappy day. They do happen. I also think you are going to have trust issues for a while. I know I do at times, but then I talk myself through them. It's natural - she betrayed your trust. You should look at the reasons why she did instead of on the fact that she did. I know easier said than done. For me, I'm slowly building my trust up with my wife day by day. Each day is a little more trust and it feels good to trust her.

Do you call here just to see if she'll answer? Do you go to her work to see if she is there? If so, you should probably stop that. You have to give her a reason to chose you and obsessing about her whereabouts isn't good. My bro told me this about his ex-girl friend. "If my biggest fault was that I trusted her too much, I can life with that." However, if you are finding yourself really anxious then it might be time for some anti-anxiety medication.

Also SBH, your wife is putting everything she has into the marriage now. She really is. Look at it from the other side, what would you say if your W said to you, "I don't think you aren't putting everything into working on the M." What would your response be? Angry, confused. You bet. I'm sure if you said it to her, she'd have the same response.

I think I have this perspective because once during a discussion my wife said how hard she was at working the M and talked about ways she was doing so. I could really hear it in her voice. It kinda struck me as I thought that I was putting in most the work. I mean here I was going to therapy, taking meds, giving her space, etc. and I though she was doing very little on the M. It really woke me up as to the fact that my W is working hard even in ways that I cannot see. Since that time, I've never had the feeling that one of is is not working on the marriage.

But it is hard to shake that perception. Especially when you aren't getting what you need. Talking on here, reading other stories makes me see how good I really have it. I mean some people here are going through absolute H-e-l-l. And I get to see my W every night, she calls me, we sleep in the same bed, she walks around naked after her shower (okay that last one is a little cheeky ) and we have mostly pleasant interactions.

Considering where I was 8 weeks ago. It is amazing. Yet I still am not happy at times. I think I tend to look towards what is next instead of focusing on the now. (except for today)

Hope your day turns better. some of my crappy days have ended up going very well and some of my better days have ended up badly.

[Sad_but_happy]

So glad you spoke up harrier... I agree you and I have it better then most but far from where we want it. I do feel for others on this board. If my WAW continued to see OM I am not kidding when I say it would be over. I would kick her out or file for D. It would hurt like hell but I would need to do it for my own health. I am not saying others should feel the same. It is just my threshold of disrespect. For those of you that hang in for months and years, God bless you!

I mind read wwwwwaaaaaayyyyy too much. When my W and I are close I assume she does not want to be near me even though each and every day the hugs are warmer and closer. When I walk in the door I'm greeted with a big smile and hug. She is definately makeing great efforts. As I said, she gave up her "fantasy" sole-mate and that really IS a huge sacrafice.

Positive Reminders:
Just a month ago she was hanging on the edge of the bed as far from me as possible. Not anymore.

Just a month ago she was looking at town houses to move into. Not anymore.

Just a month ago she was waking up and going to bed sad. Not anymore.

Just a month ago she would not talk of any future with me. Now she talks daily.

Just a month ago she would not talk about doing things together. Now she does daily.


Well... Feeling a little better... Sitting close by the fire with wine and TV tonight just like every night... Then to bed to read a relationship book together.

I know what my problem is... It's the intimacy I miss. But I assume if I stay the course and stay patient it will be better than it ever has been.

[Harrier]

By intimacy do you mean ML? Because from your post you have whole lot of intimacy even if you do initiate it. Just look at what you wrote. There is no question about that.

[Sad_but_happy]

ML would be great but by intimacy I mean HER initiating ANY touch. Which is STILL something we have to work on because it was almost always me that initiated. That is one of our big issues. My LL (like most men) is touch. And she didn't meet that need.

She could just grab my hand or rub my leg or initiate a hug and I would be so darn happy. But after the "honeymoon phase" 17 years ago she really slowed down. And that has been my biggest complaint for years.

She "claims" she is physically affectionate (referring to how she could freely hug/hold hands with OM)... But that is the fog. Everyone is like that at the beginning of an R. When we do finally discuss it again I have these three points:

1. She WAS affectionate the first few years of our R.

2. When I stopped being affectionate 3 years ago because I was detaching (kissing, hugging, etc) she would ask me to be affectionate with her. So it wasn't ME that she couldn't be affectionate with.

3. I have noticed in the past 6 months to a year that she is less affectionate with kids. She is still affectionate but now instead of finding them to give a hug or kiss goodbye, she just yells, "I’m going out, be back soon." Or does not come home and immediately hug them. Both my kids have commented to me that mom forget to give them a kiss.


I think that W can be affectionate when it's easy. When it's new. As soon as it gets comfortable she pulls back. This IS natural but shows that you need to put EFFORT into continued affection. Everything gets old and it is easy to take people for granted but that is where the EFFORT comes in.

I so want to bring up those three points to her and have been fighting not to. Any thoughts on if I should or not?

[PEI]

SBH,

Granted, I'm not completely up to date on your sitch, but this jumped out at me and I wanted to comment ...

While all the points you make above are valid, what would be the PURPOSE in bringing them up? They are statements of past behaviour ... think more in terms of DB methodology ... solution oriented thinking. Instead of bringing up that she WAS affectionate in the first few years of the R (which will come across as critism etc) why not try to think back to what you were doing at that time which helped draw that behaviour out of her?

Oh ... and patience ... your sitch has many positives, don't forget to measure the small things, the small gains and improvements ... it's easy to get frustrated if we focus on only the big goals.

Peace
PEI

[Sad_but_happy]

I guess the purpose is for W to see that she needs to change behavior too. Right now she feels that she IS physically affectionate because she was able to be that way with OM. Maybe this is not the time, but living in that fog assuming that she IS a certain way seems counterproductive.

Especially the example regarding kids. Wouldn't you want to know if kids said that about you?

Seems she is missing the boat... Maybe I'm rushing the process...

Step 1, get our M on solid ground.

Step 2, understand how to meet each others needs and work on that.

Correct?

[Harrier]

PEI, I don't always think looking back to see what you did is helpful. I mean we can't recreate the feelings of a new romance with someone you have been with for a dozen or so years. It's not realistic. Some would disagree, but I think I have science on my side.

But to your point that doesn't mean that a person cannot affect how their S sees them. I think our S are attracted to us for a variety of reason. Knowing yourself and knowing those helps spark that reaction.

SBH
As for bringing it up. I differ from the DB approach on this. I think there are ways to bring it up that can be effective or they can totally backfire. I've done both in my situation. I have notice for me that once I bring up something I feel 10X better than if I hold it in and let it fester. (even if I bring it up here, to my IC, or to my W) It's most effective bringing it up to my W.

Also there has to be a right time. If you are dying to bring it up, I would bring it up in a round about way. If you haven't, I'd check out the Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. Aside from an interesting read, the author has a bunch of different "activities" couples can do. Your W might be game and they might allow you to talk a bout this in a non-threatening non-complaining way. I think the key is not to sound like you are whining about it.

However, I assume most here would disagree with that approach.

I do agree on taking stock of the small things, as we have discussed a lot. There is a lot of intimacy between your W and you. I think you aren't really missing intimacy...you are missing W initiating it. That's a different thing. Right now why does it bother you that she isn't initiating? Do you think she is trying tell you something? Because I think her other actions are telling you a whole lot. Listen.

You are building, that's why the call it piecing and not one big chunk.

[Sad_but_happy]

I don't know. I'll will play it by ear. It WILL come out at some point, probably sooner than later because I feel it's important for her to understand that kids want an affectionate mom all the time. And if it helps me in the process, well that's a bonus.

It will be non-threatening. Maybe after reading a bit of the book tonight. We'll see.

Almost time to go home! Gotta love that!

[Denver_2010]

SBH and Harrier - You guys are both in such an enviable position right now. Just be patient. I would absolutely love to be where you both are. I think that I'm going to have stop reading this thread bc I am soooo jealous!

J/k... I read it for inspiration. But be patient guys!

Denver

[Sad_but_happy]

I know you are right Denver... I do need to be patient and didnt bring it up last night.

I have been following your thread. I think about you and others all the time. Keep the faith!

This is such an odd position to be in. Our WAS has just as much to lose as we do. Even more because many regret their decisions...

I really feel that we need to get to a point of caring as little as them before they start to question their decisions.