Am I piecing? Just can't tell 2...

[Sad_but_happy]

Harrier,
What happened? I was/am in such a hurry to get where you are/were...

How did you mess up with W?

[Harrier]

Harrier,
What happened? I was/am in such a hurry to get where you are/were...

How did you mess up with W?

Don't be in such a hurry. It will only lead to trouble.

I'd rather not talk about it when it's so raw. Lets just say I did something very stupid that set us back a little. It's not fatal to our progress, but a thus point in the game I dont want any movement backwards. I just show me its a process and not a straight line.

The hardest part for me is not beating myself up over this. Right now I hate myself for what I did. That will take some time.

Enjoy every moment with your W now. Even if it's not what you want. I assure you she is giving you everything she has right now. Appreciate that.

[Sad_but_happy]

Will do bud! As you said, don't beat yourself up. As you read, I made a dumb mistake Christmas Eve... Angry at myself fir two days...

But I figure that if W leaves me cause of these little setbacks, she is not worth pursuing anyway...

Take care my friend...

[sandi2]

Even if it's not what you want. I assure you she is giving you everything she has right now. Appreciate that.

I know you were directing that to SBH, but I appreciate what you've said in that quote and I hope it will help others to understand that which ever side of the fence we might be....it is hell for both. But if "love" is the bottom line....both of you can recover.

[Sad_but_happy]

Well... I have to say that not talking about R really seems to work. The mind of a WAS is very complex. They don't feel guilt partially because they feel that it was the LBS that neglected them and so they are justified in their actions.

Also, I encourage everyone to read "Surrendering to Marriage" because it places the focus on the fact that you CAN'T be happy all the time and there are struggles you must face no matter who you choose for a mate. It focuses on the security and warmth of a steady relationship instead of continually looking for more excitment elsewhere which often leads to lonliness.

Case in point:
Here are two scinerios I read... What would you rather have?

1. You walk in the door (as a man) to a new relationship of 6 months after a hard days work. The NEW partner is waiting and greets you half dressed with open arms, and tons of affection. She leads you into the bedroom and proceeds to do things you only dream about.

2. You walk in the door (as a man) to a relationship of 30 years after a hard days work. Your partner is waiting and greets you with the following words, "Oh, I'm so glad you're home. Please scoop the litter box".

The questions posed are these;
1. Who are you more apt to pay more attention to? Buy things for? talk to romantically? Most likely number 1.

2. Who deserves it more? Definately number 2.

the moral of the story is that the woman of your 30 year relationship deserves it much more. She had your children, she takes care of your home, she takes care of you... BUT IT TAKES EFFORT!!! YOU HAVE TO WORK AT IT!!! AND SO DOES SHE!!!


Update on my sitch...
Last night we had a breakthrough... We started the day with breakfast, then we went to a local place to watch some football with friends. We then went home and had more friends come over and watched another game. Wife made some great food and we sat together on our big chair and ate and drank all day. Was lots of fun. After our friends left we sat very close on the chair and watched some TV, had popcorn and a little more to drink. We were not drunk or even feeling it as we paced ourselves all day.

We finished reading "Surrendering to marriage" and then stayed in bed talking for a little while. As we were settling into bed I had my arm around W and was falling asleep. All of a sudden it happened. The first sign of affection from W since mid-September. She took her arm and placed it across my chest. I can't tell you how big a step this is. After months of only ME showing small signs of affection this was HER very first sign.

I didn't make any big deal of it but I have to say I was smiling inside. It's almost like after all these months of hard work someone finally notices your efforts and rewards you.

One small step for W, one giant leap for M...


I also have to say that I have come so close to talking about R many times. But have only slipped up once in the last 3 months.

Thanks to Harrier and Sandi. They reminded me to just enjoy W and not expect more then I am getting in the moment. That's a hard thing to do. BUT IT DOES WORK! In the WAS mind they ARE moving on with the R. So any negitive talk about R sets THEM back and makes THEM feel like YOUR not moving forward.

Happy New Year Fellow DB'ers...

[Harrier]

SBH,

It is a grueling situation at times, but when the rewards come it makes you feel like you are on the right track. But I hate having the need to to measure/analyze every bit of affection or non affection what ever the case may be. It's funny when the marriage is just flowing along, you don't even think about these things. Maybe we should.

Take Sunday morning for example. I suggested that she take our 4-year old to a movie. She really like the idea. Before she left I was standing in the kitchen and she came right over to me and gave me a kiss and a hug totally out of the blue. But then that evening I came down stairs and she was doing something and totally ignored me. (she later apologized for being b*tchy) Talk about confusing.

As for I just spent some time this morning taking stock of my situation. The good, the bad, the worried, misc.

For some reason, I'm really concerned on backsliding on my hard work. It really scares me that I could just go back. Taking stock on my changes/goals really helped me.

A big part of my problem is something I have NO CONTROL over (none of us do) I can control my reaction, but I can't control the thing.

It is my dreams - like when I'm sleeping. I have always been a vivid dreamer. Since we ML last Wednesday (I found out she was also up for in on NYE, if I hadn't gotten pissy) I've had three nights of dreams about the OM. The first was that I ran into him somewhere and confronted him. He was afraid I was going to beat him up, but we ended up talking.
Then the other night I had a dream that she had pay-as-you-go cell phone that she didn't tell me about so she could talk to him without me checking our phone bill. I also dreamt that she was talking to him a lot.
Last night, I think I had a dream where I saw them having lunch or something (it was work related in my dream)

Each dream dredged up old feelings of hurt/betrayal. When I awoke I felt bad (but didn't let W know) Darn it.

I know she doesn't feel the same for him now. She told me that she saw him at a meeting a few weeks ago and didn't even sit by him. She said that he was different to her.
She said she was in a "fog" during that time and the person that she was attracted to doesn't exists. He was something she built up while in the "fog."

I dunno, the there is really only one way back. That's the path I have to stay on.

I don't mean to hijack your thread with where I am SBH, but I like to post here since I think our situations are similar (but at different stages)

[Sad_but_happy]

I agree Harrier. Seems you and I are on close to the same path. The difference for me is that my W has been consistent. She does not b**tch at me at all. We do the same thing every night... Wine and a movie and some TV by the fire, go to bed the same time, read together, etc. This consistency is nice because it helps me to measure where we are as a couple. We will do the same thing tonight and I get to look forward to it. No fighting or stress, just enjoying one another.

I KNOW putting her arm around me was a big step for her. She didn't have to do it. We had already been settled in for about 5 minutes so she had to think about it before finally deciding to go ahead and do it.

I have seen nothing but forward progress for weeks. Slow by my standards but definitely forward. I can wait for her since I do love her.

She talks about us needing to get out to dinner more, going on vacations together. Enjoying each other when the kids are older, etc.

The only time I get angry is when I think of her feelings for OM. Even if they are fading. I hate that she felt that for someone else even for a moment. Fantasizing life with him. But then I think of their short 2-3 month relationship in secrecy and feel sad that she lowered herself in that way. She gave in and was weak and did something that I consider dirty. She not only changed who she was, she changed who she thought she was. And she changed who I thought she was.

But here we are, starting to understand for the first time in 20 years what it takes to make a M work.

Don't worry about hijacking. You are welcome to vent and share anytime!

[Harrier]

My W has definitely not been consistent except for a few things. She calls me everyday from work. I never call her.
In some ways it makes it harder because I never know where I am.
I admit, I am jealous of you in one respect. Your W makes time for you to every single night. My W does not. I think if she did, I would feel a lot better. My W likes her "alone" time and always has. For ex., last night she worked out on the treadmill, took a shower and went off to bed. But this isn't really new behavior for her. She has always been somewhat of a loner.

I don't know if your W works or not, but I'm sure the fact that she works full-time and helps with the kids makes her alone time absolutely vital to her mental health. I'm okay with for the most part.

But I'd like to see her want to spend time with me. Honestly, I think this contributed to our issues. Plus she funny, smart and hot, so I want her to hang around. That's probably the No. 1 thing that bugged me about the EA. She wanted to be around this guy and made an effort to make it happen. She was happy texting/emailing/calling (not excessive though) this guy several times during the day while she could only manage a single call to me. She never emails me. Arggghhhh, I'm getting worked up again. Calm, calm, calm. :-)

But I know she is working hard at this and maybe isn't ready for that yet. But even in the best of times, she always had alone time. So different from when we first started going out. She was always trying to have excuses to spend time together. But I know that when I'm in a good mood/the funny H she loves being around me.

We've already touched on this in MC.

The other thing is that she is so dang smart, has a Ph.D in psychology no less. And I can't get her to read anything about Ms or Rs. She considers a lot of it cr*p. I'm sure she'd see DB as the same. It doesn't help that MWD only has a masters and writes for Psychology Today. So the fact that she go to MC is a huge step.

okay this is sort of rambling.

[Sad_but_happy]

Well Harrier... That is a tough one!

My W is hot also which is why she is so vulnerable. Guys are just naturally attracted to her. She does work out often and eats right.

BUT...

My W was a SAHM for 11 years. She has no college degree and can't support herself as it stands today. She works part time. She is VERY talented but just has no idea what she wants to do. She is a wonderful mom though and is raising two beautiful children and I hold a tremendous amount of respect for her in that regard.

The other problem with W is she is always searching for SOMETHING. Rarely just content in the moment. Always thinking the next thing will make her happy. Something she is aware of and working on. She knows happiness is within but that is a difficult thing for her to follow.

That fog is a killer. It truly is a drug! An escape from the stress of real life. If my W actually left she would be smacked with reality and no new man would be able to save her from the fact that she will need to support herself (alone and without support from me at some point), mother alone, and do everything herself. And what are the chances that OM will be there forever? Slim to none in most cases...

You and I have supported and loved our wives. WE deserve what OM is getting or got! And if we do what we are supposed to do, love, pay attention, help, care for, we will get it...

If not from our W then from the next R because you and I have an advantage over 99% of the men out there... We NOW understand!

[Harrier]

Thankfully, my W works in a female dominated profession. Actually, if I really sit down and think about it could seem scary. I mean I see a number of WAS's on here who rely on their spouse as their primary means of support.

My wife makes more than I do. Okay, it's only a few thousand more, but she could easily make it on her own with the kids. So that fear isn't what's keeping her with me. I guess you could look at that as a positive.

I think I can relate to your W a bit with respect to the searching for something else. I'm kinda like that especially with jobs, cars, homes etc.

I do disagree with you a bit. I don't necessary feel that I deserved what the OM got. My wife was a saint for 7 months while I was working through my issues. I was not pleasant to be around and she certainly didn't deserve that. I mean I can see why the EA happened. When I was acting the way I did I got so much love, support from my W, but it wasn't enough. I have to live with that every day. That has changed a lot, but I can't sugarcoat the past or deny my role.

I think the only thing I would like my wife is the chance for a good marriage. She's giving me that and much more. But it all comes down to me.

And honestly, I'm not looking for another R, if this does not work out for some reason. I decided a long time ago that if my W died unexpectedly, that it would be hard or even impossible to find that kind of love again. I truly believe that she is my soulmate.

It is interesting, my W has a lot of insight to the situation. The other night we were talking about things and she said, "You know we are both lucky that we are still here and willing to work on things." It kinda struck me a little. I mean a lot of WAWs might throw out, "You are lucky I'm here." But she did acknowledge that I could escape as easily as she could.