GAL with waw. Stuck bad.

[habitacker]

I don't mean to be posting so much, but I must be in some sort of after X-mas trauma or something. lol.

This is probably dumb, so someone tell me if it is. I have always wished my wife could see some of the information that is out there. I wish she could learn everything I have. I know I can not show her anything because I understand how that looks to her. Is it possible to get info to her a different way?

Example: If someone sent me an e-mail of Michelle's WAW video, and my wife found it.

I am really not being impatient or desperate, I would really just like to help her.

[habitacker]

Well, here I go again.

I have been reading a lot of other threads, and have noticed a lot of guys having R conversations with their WAW's. According to DBing this is wrong. Right?

I am having absolutely no R talk with wife. Someone please tell me I am doing it right. In 4 months she has never tried any contact about R. Not one word from her.

Since day one, I have been going to MC almost every week. She has never asked me about it once. Not one word from her.

I have lost 30lbs. Went from 6'1" 207lbs. to 176lbs. and actually have a six pack starting. I never even had this in high school. Went from 36" waist to 31" and had to get new wardrobe. Not one word from her.

The way I am with the kids now. They have turned into little leaches with me. It is so obvious. Just giving them more time, and a little love. It is amazing how fast they come to you. I love it. Not one word from her.

I have a new wardrobe,new cologne, and I clean up and get out as much as I can. I even clean up like I am going somewhere and just sit in my truck and read. I don't really want to leave, just trying to give space. Not one word from her.

I read books and the bible all the time. This is amazing. I bet I haven't read more than 4 books in twenty years. Not one word from her.

I have shown no anger. This is a big thing for me. I have been a grumpy, angry person for some time now. I have not been angry at all. This was a big problem for us, and this is one of the biggest changes for me. I love the way I am now. I was tired of being angry. I noticed this in myself before the bomb, and was ready to do something about it. I feel great. But, Not one word from her.

I am just venting. I know I am doing these things for me. I know I am not supposed to have expectations, but come on!!! 4 months and not one word!!!

I am not giving up. I know this all sounds bad, but my patience is actually growing. I think this post is just letting some frustration out.

Maybe I am just a little jealous when I read others posts and see that they are interacting with their WAW's.

I remember something in DBing about giving it a few weeks or a month, and look for baby steps. If not, try a different approach. I see a lot of veteran's that have been doing this for much longer, even years. I thought I saw some baby steps, but I think I may have been grasping.

How do I know when this approach isn't working? I don't mean dumping DBing, just is there another approach, and how do you know when you should give up on something that seems to be going down cheeseless tunnels?

[MrBond]

For the R talk, you don't do it in the beginning of the process. You make changes, see if things soften up and then approach the R talk.

As for your changes. What are you doing them for? YOU or HER? Are they positive changes? If they are, then great. You're not doing it for her. The working out and bettering yourself is to get back your self-esteem. To get YOU back not her.

In terms of the M, what were the issues she had? What did she say was wrong with the M? Did you make those changes?

You can't "expect" her to say or notice anything. My W hasn't "said" anything postitive to me, yet her "actions" show that she had softened up and has been trying in her own way to set things right. It took 2 years for her to get to that point. One thing you have to understand is that it's up to the WAS's timetable. Not yours. So that's why you detach.

If you are planning to throw her out because you are saying that she doesn't say anything about your changes, well that's up to you. But the WAS will not say anything positive until they're ready. If you don't have the patience, then throw her out. I can tell you though that when you do, you're going to deal with alot of resentment and maybe even regret your decision. Ground yourself first then make a decision.

DBing is about doing what works. If you see your W softening, then do more of that. It could be a small positive shift, but a shift nonetheless. Look for the positives in unexpected ways. Just not in the way that you want.

[Denver_2010]

I think that you have two options. One, continue doing what you are doing indefinitely waiting for her to continue to soften and waiting for the right opportunity to address the R/M with W. Two, move out of the house yourself to shake things up a little. That would be taking a different approach. I think you moving out would remove a lot of the resentment that Bond talks about with you kicking her out of the house. You can tell her that you are moving out to give both of you space to figure things out and leave it at that. Obviously there are huge risks with option two, but it may be the only way to get her to miss you and start thinking about whether or not she wants M. She seems more than fine being limbo right now. Also, I think that you need to consider the possibility that she is planning how and when she is going to leave the house herself. I know that my wife and lived in limbo for months. Little did I know that she was building up the courage to leave and planning how she was going to do it. By the time I figured it out, it was too late. I wish that I had been preemptive in leaving. I think that the table would have been turned had I done this.

[habitacker]

Bond, I see that she is less tense and has softened. I believe she would talk. I am not sure how positive it would be though.

You say to talk when the time seems right, but others say to wait till she comes to me about R talk. I am kind of torn. I did read your other post on another thread about this and I understand what you are saying. I have just been stuck on not initiating R talk because that seems like the advice I usually get.

I will have to think hard about this. The last time I initiated R talk was the first time I heard "I want a divorce". I thought she had softened at that point but I was wrong. Now I am afraid to R talk.

As far as issues for her in marriage? I know the big thing was my anger. I was just a grumpy person. I have fixed this. Even MC is amazed that my anger has been so easy for me to take care of. Which shows me where some of it was coming from. I had lots of love to give, but forgot how. She wasn't receiving or giving it either. This was easy for us in the early years. We lost it somewhere and did not realize that marriage took work. Very bad communication by us. The ways I tried to communicate were wrong, and I never saw hers. She keeps everything inside. Michelle's WAW video says women use words, but guys need to see action, I got neither. Until the bomb.

As for other issues for her. I don't know. Like I said she just keeps everything to herself. I always feel like I am guessing. I believe this to be a big reason we are in this sitch. Not to take anything away from my faults, they we're big, and I am deeply ashamed, but things needed to be worked on before it got this far.

I feel the changes I have stated above are for me. I feel great not being a grump. I had been searching for an answer to that way before I even knew there was a problem with M.

Working out? That started out as just a way to go out in the shop and give her space. I like the way I look now, but have to admit I do not enjoy it. I work physically all day. The last thing I want to do is work out. A little discipline isn't gonna hurt me though.

Like I said, I really now there should be no expectations, I was just venting because it would be nice to hear something from her. It is a lot of work without reward at this time.

[habitacker]

The kicking her out of the house thing? That was just me being frustrated. I would never do that. I would never make anything uncomfortable for the kids or her.

Denver, I am definately in limbo, and you may be correct about her being in limbo and plotting an exit strategy. That is what I am afraid of, and I am not prepared to move away from my kids. Heck, I am just getting attached like I should of always been.

[habitacker]

I have spent the last 2 nights away from the house. Stayed out long enough for her to be in bed before I got home.

I figured I would try something a little different and see if she has any reaction to it. It is hard not seeing the kids though.

Now, tonight is the New Year and I am not sure what to do. We have never gone out on New Year's, but it is a reason for me to get out and give her some more space. I am just afraid of her taking this the wrong way. I went out and did whatever I wanted to do before. I was gone a lot. This is nothing she has ever complained about, but being around home now is probably the 2nd biggest part of my 180. Anger issues being #1. I just don't want it to look like I am falling back into old ways.

[MrBond]

What were some of the things you would do together on New Year's? If things are "ok" with you, maybe you could spend a little time together since you were out the last couple of days.

[habitacker]

We have really never done anything in the past. Usually sleeping before midnight. If anyone went out it would be me alone. She has never gone out much.

I want to say that we live in a very small town. So when I say I go out, it is just hanging out with buddies at the local bar. Nothing else to do. She is not interested in the bar scene and actually either am I, it is just the only thing to do in town.

That would be great if she would spend time with me,but I have not seen any indication of that yet. Every night is like the movie groundhog day. After kids go to bed, she either goes to bed or goes downstairs to watch her shows. It is definately like roommates with seperate lifes.

It is like she is in limbo. Just leaving things the way they are.

[habitacker]

I kind of feel like I am falling into this limbo also. With the way things are, they are not getting better, but doesn't seem to be getting any worse.

Maybe I am afraid to do anything, and maybe that is what I should do, nothing. It might not be time.

I feel tired and wore out. I don't feel like trying anymore. I feel bad about this, because I feel like I am starting to give up.

Maybe I have been trying to hard. Could this finally be detaching?