Am I piecing? Just can't tell 2...

[sandi2]

Sounds like you need a lot of reassuring, so I hope I can help you realize that you are being your own worst enemy.

We went to a party and I drank waaaaay too much.

Lesson learned? We have read similar posts from LBH's before and drinking seems to lead to bad behavior. Maybe you need to drink non-alcoholic beverages for a while?

It made me angry cause I thought it should have been done as a family. Anyway W didn't mean to do it maliciously but like I said i had too much to drink.

You know, I can really identify with that b/c when my kids were little, things like that were so important to me. However, after facing some very serious issues (life & death issues) at Christmastime, I have learned what is truly important during that special night of the year. We learn from growing in experiences how to list things of importance. As you said, you had drank too much and therefore it didn't take but a little spark to ignite your anger. You also realize that she did not do it to be mean. Maybe she had drank enough that she just wasn't thinking as clearly, also. Next time, remember the drinking will tear down what you've built up and it's not worth it.

The worst part of your W having an EA is the LBS feels as if they are being compared to this perfect OM or OW(mind reading).

That is how you think right then b/c that is how you feel, but don't you think the worst part of an A would be breaking up a family? You both are in the healing stages. I had surgery a few times and you know what? I found out that there is a lot of pain that goes along with the healing. Once I even called the doctor b/c it hurt worse after the surgery and I thought something awful had happened. He said it was normal and to expect it. So, that's what I'm telling you. It's normal. Expect it to hurt like he!! before it has completely healed.

And, let me throw this in again. I doubt if OM was all that perfect! Women get into EA's and may even convince themselves that OM is great......but not perfect.

Anyway, after all that we went to several parties the following days. She sat on my lap once and we still spoon every night. She leans into me more on her own. Still have wine every night and read marriage books together.

And....if you only knew what a positive sign that is then you could relax a little and stop living in a pressure cooker. The very fact that she's sleeping in the SAME BED, much less SPOONING with you......it takes some W's a loooong time before they are willing to even get that close!

I didn't lie by the way. I am lonely and I do miss ML.

I am in such an odd gray area. She seems committed to the M but affection is not happening on her part. I assume it's cause she wants to feel those "in love" feelings again. My problem is that I can't live without affection. It is my LL.

Don't you want her to have those feelings for you? She knows you miss ML and that you're lonely. She really does. What you don't know is that she feels guilty about it.
She probably won't discuss it, but IDK. If you show jealously or anger....then she won't. You would need to be a solid strong mood where you could keep control of yourself.

What you are really saying is that you can't do without sex! You've told how she shows little signs of affection....but you want to ML and that is eating you up. But you can do without it. I know you can. You don't "want to", but you can. Yes, it's your LL, but I went almost my entire M without my LL and I haven't fell over dead yet! So, yes you can!

What is her LL? I think I read where you said it was flowers & gits? Are you sure? I mean, has she ever actually told you?

I am sooo afraid that I am going to wander to OW just to feel something.

Okay, here it is right here. I want you to hang on to this thought.

I had an EA b/c I wanted to FEEL SOMETHING.....ANYTHING that would prove I was alive. My insides had been dead for so long that I didn't know what it was like to feel anything. I wanted it to be from my H, too, but there had been so many years of NOTHING until I was completely unguarded when I got off into my mess. I know some people would say that is hypocrisy....but I can't help that, it is what happened. Now you are saying that you are so afraid you will turn to another woman out of "needs". You better think of what you've said about the WAS.

Everything we read tells to give to your S and nurture the R but she just can't seem to do that.

All in good time. No, she can't do it yet. That's what I've been trying to tell you. If you will nurture her the way she needs now...(not necessarily what you think), then it will be worth it when she's ready to give back.

The sexual affection will probably the the last thing for her to do. I think it is b/c we women have our emotions intertwined with the affection/sex. She is trying to get through her grieving and trust you to stay this new person and she wants to fall in love with you.
Can you handle that?

It's not right that the WAS and LBS both make mistakes in the R. Then the WAS decides to do something very bad like see OP. Then the LBS has to fight for marriage by giving the WAS anything and everything that will bring them back.

Listen to yourself! You just said you were afraid that you'd turn to OW! The fact that you chose to fight to bring the M back is your decision, but don't make this sound like "she gets to have an A but I'm here doing all this work" and get nothing in return!

Sandi, am I being compared to OM every day or is she comparing the new me to the old me?

Once I broke it off with OM, I never compared my H with him.
This is loosing control of your thought pattern. It will beat you down into the ground! Now she may be watching to see how long this new you will stick. She may be scared to invest her emotional feelings until she sees if this new you is going to last. You have to realize that it looks like a ploy to get the WAW back, so she's watching.

I truly believe she is not going anywhere and wants to stay married but this lack of physical affection is really killing me!!! And knowing that she would readily give it to OM just adds fuel to the fire!!!

So, you go back to what is your main problem. In the same sentence you say you are sure she's staying but you can't the fact you aren't getting sex.....and your thoughts run away and decides that she would gladly give sex to OM.

So in spite of what some folks think that my "tone" comes across in my posts...I will do as I always do and that is to be honest & plain spoken. Your W is going through a transition stage from having feelings for some OM and then stopping those feeling and finding feelings for her H again. Now maybe you think that should be done in a few months, but if she really gets over the OM and really begins working on her feelings for you....that is a tall order, but it will be worth it. If you try to put pressure on her to rush through it....it will hurt the process. You can shout how unfair that is until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the facts. Facts are facts and being fair or unfair doesn't change it.

I can picture W being sooo happy when she was able to see OM and I'm sure she was. I'm sure she gave him a big hug and kiss every time she arrived and every time she left. She was able to get away from "real life" and live in a fantasy! I want that too.

What?? Stop it, you are sounding like a jealous boy b/c she had an A. She was trying to escape her reality for a fantasy....and you want that too? Really. I sure hope you are blowing off steam b/c you've got to get past this.

I know I can forgive if I feel a commitment from W. And yes, I need to feel it physically. It's my LL. Anything else is second best. W knows my LL and if she can't meet my LL then I feel she doesn't love me. And maybe right now she doesn't. And how long can I really keep this up? It's crap that I have to wait for her to love me again before I get my needs met. With no guarantees she ever will love me again. And am I just wasting time? Maybe another woman will love me better.

Listen to yourself! You are crying b/c your needs are not being met. Maybe her needs had not been met, did you ever think about that? Maybe the other things you were doing was second best to her? (I'm referring to what led up to the EA)


I'm not as patient or strong as many on this board. I know I have it better then most with my W staying and committing and giving my SOME affection but for me it's not enough. Fighting the rejection and loneliness is not easy no matter how much 180 and GAL I do...


Both of you are fragile right now. You have to fight off feeling insecure and feelings of jealousy. You have to be strong for her b/c she is more fragile than you in some areas. The way you nurture her now will not be for life, hopefully, but it could determine the outcome. Just don't end up doing all the bad stuff the WAS gets blasted to he!! and back again.

((hugs))

[sandi2]

Got this list from Flowmom. I think it's pretty good from a woman's POV.


Attractive, in no particular order:
•a great smile
•healthy habits
•being truly *in* his and aware of his body
•taking pride in his work and how he does it, both paid and otherwise
•having passion(s) outside of relationships and paid work, and making time for them
•maintaining strong friendships and being interested in other people
•being able to truly relax
•being a fun, connected dad
•aware of own emotional needs
•knowing what he wants and taking risks to pursue that
•being able to poke fun at himself and not take himself too seriously, humour
•casually flirtatious
•balanced ego - projects awareness of strengths and faults
•mixed signals about availability
•unpredictable in courtship rituals

Unattractive:
•workaholic
•narcissistic (preoccupied with self)
•no interests
•out of touch with body/chronically stressed
•always "plugged in" (computer/phone/tv/blackberry/iphone/cell/video game, etc.
•"walking wounded" - obviously emotionally damaged, but not dealing with it
•uninspired parent
•boasting, false confidence, fake PMA
•disrespect/contempt towards women including mother/wife/ex, etc.
•scripted/planned flirtation/humour
•inflated ego
•neon sign flashing "I'm available"And this one from RobX:


Quote:
The confidence to move on with your life and make decisions and be assertive and stop being approval seeking and being emotional, take the lead role in your life, determine where it's going, don't let someone determine this for you.

She let you go, great!
Follow that instead of pursuing her.

You have been given notice.

Move on, in the opposite direction, holding on to her is going to insure that you don't get her.

[Harrier]

SBH

First of all, I am not a psychologist. However, I'm going to tell you what my IC told me about talking to your W about your needs. Honestly, I believe that is why I am where I am.
I know this might fly in the face of DBing. But he told me it's okay to communicate your needs to W. His tact was this...say something like "I'm upset that you haven't done....XYZ. I know you aren't in the same place as me and I don't expect you to suddenly do something that you aren't ready for, but I just thought it was important for me to communicate this with you. I know you need time." etc.

Of course you run the risk of your W saying "What is his problem, we spoon, hug, spend time together."

For me I did this for two things with my W - sleeping the same bed and the lack of physical intimacy (for me holding hands, hugging, saying ILY). And of course she had the reaction to it like I was impatient and ready to move things along faster, but I assured here I wasn't. It was a risk for me, but my IC said one of my problems is that I didn't effective communicate my needs with W.

Of course, I didn't hound my wife daily about it nor was I depressed about it all the time. I just brought it up once each time when it was really getting to me. I didn't yell or scream. I was pretty calm and straightforward. That was it. I believe that it got my wife really thinking about why she was still wanting to sleep in separate beds or why she was not being physically intimate. And within a week of both of my talks, my W switched her thoughts on these items.

Of course to some extent it was me doing something different because usually I just tried to downplay my emotions about things. My W said she really respected me for talking to her about it in a way that was more "Adult."
I'm not recommending this course of action, but it's just some food for thought.

Also to add to what Sandi said, my W said to me last night, 'You are so much more attractive when you are happy." Her actual words. Again, they do notice even if they don't say anything.

[sandi2]

'You are so much more attractive when you are happy." Her actual words. Again, they do notice even if they don't say anything.

Yes!

[sandi2]

I meant to erase this last part of that quote I copied:

She let you go, great!
Follow that instead of pursuing her.

You have been given notice.

Move on, in the opposite direction, holding on to her is going to insure that you don't get her.

That doesn't apply in your stitch.

[Sad_but_happy]

(((Sandi)))

All I can say is WOW!!! Thanks so much for taking the time to disect my statements. That took time and caring and I really appreciate it. You're amazing!!!

You are correct on every point!!!

Same to you Harrier! I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with my sitch.


I assure you that I do not act at home the way I vent here! This forum is great because I can release all the anxiety I feel without taking it out on W. I assure you that at home I am happy, helpful, and non combative.

I really feel the distance starting to set in with OM and W. She is more upbeat, not sad, and never moping or angry. Starting to feel more settled in. I think she is level headed about whats right. This shows how unselfish she really is. Not easy to give up your perceeved "sole-mate". Especially when in the fog. That shows unbelieveable strength... Even if it is a fantasy...

Last night we had wine by the fire and watched TV. We were sitting close though I resisted the urge to put my arm around her and pull hr closer. If she wants to be closer I will let her initiate it. We went to bed and I continued to read "Surrender to Marriage" to us. Keep in mind that this is a book that she got from the Library on her own. Last nights chapter was a good one. It focused on the fact that that peoples idea of the "honeymoon stage" in marriage is a**backwards (exact words). It's not in the first few years or DECADES of a relationship, but after the kids are grown and you look at them and your grandchildren with pride knowing that you made it through together and can now reep the rewards of a job well done. Can you really enjoy that moment if you are divorced??? Will you ever be able to enjoy it? NO!!!

Marriage is SUPPOSED to be difficult!!! We forget that!!! The old saying, "nothing worth doing is easy", certainly applies.

Anyway, after the chapter my W made the comment that we need to buy this book and read it over and over!!! Of course I agreed!

I did spoon her falling to sleep and she did back into me. So I can only assume she was OK with it.

[MynameisMZ]

SBH,

I'm new to board and also in piecing with H. I made/make mistakes too. I cut out all alcohol during my 180. FYI...

My following thoughts are based on the premise that our WAS are operating subconsciously and even unconsciously during the fog.

I had a thought about how much you are doing and how long it seems (to you)to be taking your W to turn around. Maybe she is taking it slow because she likes how you are paying attention and being so giving. Maybe she is afraid you will stop. Not that she is doing it on purpose, don't think that.

It took me 8 weeks to get my H from OW. I wondered why he just didn't drop her. After all, I was working my butt off! <grin>
I think deep down inside he liked it that I was pursuing him, that was my 180. If he dropped her, I'd stop my pursuit of him.

As a W you sound like you are doing all the right things. Like how you are empathic to her feelings & fantasy RE: OM. It is such a delusional state they get into! As OM fades, she'll realize it. From what I can see by the posts here, she's in. My bet is that unconsciously she is relishing your attention. My bet is on you getting this back....just a gut feeling. Hang in there, seems DB is working for you.

I'm waiting for my DR book to arrive. In the meantime I read as much here as I can to get guidance. You're all great!

MZ
____________________
M 52 H 55
S19 S16
M 21 T 24 Friends 29
A Suspected a last Christmas,
confronted H 4/24/10
A ended June 2010.

[sandi2]

Ahhh, that is great!

I know I've told this before but my grandparent were M around 65 yrs. On their 50th anniversary, I asked my GM if she had any M advice. She said, "You never reach a point that you can stop working at it.......not if you want a good one". The woman amazed me b/c my GF was a huge button pusher. I would never have put up with what she did, but then some would not put up with me....(lol)

It is fine to vent here and I'm glad you do. Everyone needs to be able to have a place to let off steam.

I think your W is showing a tremendous amount of progress. Your patience will be rewarded.

[sandi2]

My bet is that unconsciously she is relishing your attention.

She probably appreciates this new & improved model H, but one of the biggest differences that I find in WAH's who have been in an A, from the WAW's who've been in an A...is that women are wired differently than men (as you know) and therefore they do not respond well to a pursuing H who hasn't given her time to get through the grieving stages, etc. I see your H's POV and how he might like a 180 of you pursuing....but speaking as a former WAW, and personally not reading one single post where premature pursuing from the LBH worked well. But that is JMO.

Glad you have come aboard. Would like to read your story.

[Harrier]

SBH.

A piece of advice. Don't listen to any thing I saw except keep up thd principles. . I am a GD moron. I screwed things up with W last night. Horrible way to start the new year. I can't even follow simple advice. You are on the right track my brother. Keep up the principles. I wish you better success than I am having right now. Things have gone back to square one for us. I am so freaking mad at myself. Gotta star anew i guess.