Crossroads

[Kemper]

Lotus,

Thank you so much for pointing me over to your thread on Retrouvaille. I read all 18 pages and am glad that I did. I guess I was mistakenly under the impression that it was group therapy. I am mind reading here but I can only assume my W feels the same way hence her hesitation on attending. However, as we all know that could have nothing to do with why W is hesitant to attend.

Given that you have both attended Retrouvaille and helped with the program do you have any advice on the best way to encourage/ask a spouse to go? As I menioned previously I stated to my W how I felt it was important and asked her to reconsider. However, I will not bring up the topic again, or discuss MC, reconcilation or anything until I know that OM is out of the picture once and for all.

As far as my side goes I have broken things off with GF. It was what I needed to do regardless of if my W and I progress forward with working on our M. I am not happy with the way the discussion with GF started or the fact that it was over the phone vs. being in person. She wanted to discuss her feelings and based on our conversation and the direction it was going I felt that it was the best time to end things.

I have not informed W that my R with GF is over. At this time I am giving W space and letting her be, letting her think and hopefully allowing her to finally cut off OM and move forward with her life and us.

[PEI]

Kemper,

Merry Christmas to you! I'm a friend of Missher's and have been following along for a little bit. My friend, you sound good. Really good. Clear headed, goal oriented yet patient and loving.

Peace,
PEI

[Kemper]

PEI,

Merry Christmas to you as well. Thank you for the words of encouragement.

Just need to take it one day at a time and see what eventually happens.

[Lotus]

Kemper,

It is good that she is pursuing you at this point. You do not want to change that dynamic. But you have 2 young children together. They deserve parents who care enough about them to make an effort to work on the marriage. I recommend asking her to go for the sake of the children. I'm not saying that MC can't be helpful, but this is just one weekend, and can have an immediate, strong impact. You can reinforce it with MC after the weekend. Of course, the total program includes the Post sessions. But I believe most couples commit to the weekend first, and if that helps them, then they commit to the Post sessions.

[sandi2]

After the conversation I kept asking myself if I wanted to try, was I being played, should I give it a shot.

I think you need to know what your goals are.

[Kemper]

I think you need to know what your goals are.

@Sandi - that is a great statement and to be honest I am not 100% sure.

Journaling:
I called to talk to the boys last night as I typically do. W answered and we had small talk about each of our days before she got to her condo. Based on advice from a very good friend I let W know that it was over with GF. She said "really" and then proceeded to hand the phone over our oldest son so I could talk to him. The boys were in one of their moods so they didn't talk much. After I talked with them W got back on the phone and asked if I would be home. I said that I was out but would be home later on.

While I was out W called about something kid related which I addressed. Then later in evening after the boys bedtime she called again. Since I was still out I let it go to voicemail. She said she was tired and heading to bed.

This morning we had the following text exchange.
Me: Sorry I missed ur call last night. I hope you slept well, the boys and dog r doing well, and u r having a good day at work.

W: My bed was crowded. Boys were up at 4. Ugh. Are u ok?

Me: I heard oldest son ask who you called as u were hanging up so I assumed they were staying with u and I know the dog sleeps in the bed with u. Why did they get up so early? I am ok, why?

W: Oh lol. Just wanted to know I’m sure it is hard breaking up with GF. I don’t know why they were up youngest son was saying he couldn’t see and crying

Me: It is what it is and the right thing to do if we r going to try with us. Is his eye getting goopy? I hope he is not getting another ear infection or pink eye. How r u doing?

Me: R u ok?

W: No I think he was having a dream and was just not really awake. I’m ok just tired. Just had a fire drill or something

Me: Gotcha….sorry to hear u r tired.

Later in the day W asked if I could fax some information to our insurance company. I asked when she could drop it off and asked if we could meet after work. We met after work outside a small restaurant and talked for a few min. She then realized the insurance company didn't have a fax number so the forms would need to be mailed in. She appoligized for the mistake and asked if I had plans. I told her I did and she said ok. We said goodbye and left. She didn't get out of the car, didn't attempt a hug or anything.

I called the boys to talk to them this evening and again we had small talk. I talked with the boys and then W got back on the phone and said she would see me tomorrow when I pick them up.

At this point I feel that I shouldn't have revealed that GF and I were over. I also feel that if working on us was important to W then OM would already be out of the picture. In my mind it doesn't take days to contact OM and break it off.

Maybe it is lack of patience, maybe it is over analyzing, maybe it is both, who knows.

[Lotus]

Maybe it would be better to say that you and GF are taking a break to give you and your wife a chance to see if you want to get back together. I don't know your wife, and there are many different ways people can react to all the complexities of life. It is possible that the fact that someone else wants you makes you much more attractive to your wife. And if that person is out of the picture, your wife might lose interest again. Of course, that could make up your mind, too. I think it would be better to phrase it as a time period when you are willing to not date GF and see where things go with your wife. However, if they don't go anywhere, you will begin dating again. And, I would recommend putting a time limit on it. For example, if there is a Retrouvaille in January, then I would suggest that you two go to that during the time period. And if she won't go, then the time might run out, and you go back to dating.

[sandi2]

At this point I feel that I shouldn't have revealed that GF and I were over. I also feel that if working on us was important to W then OM would already be out of the picture. In my mind it doesn't take days to contact OM and break it off.

You are correct. You should not have revealed that information right now.

You probably do not see this as pursuing,but it is big-time pursuing. Has she actually said that she is ready to work on the M? As long as she keeps OM in the wings, she won't be ready. Now, she sees how easy it was for you to drop GF for her.Some women respond to a challenge,especially where their man is concerned,but you made it too easy.

What's done is done, but maybe you should run an idea across the board before you act on a good friend's advice. Be unavailable for a few days,and don't appologize for every call you miss. If it's something important about the kids,she'll let you know.

I am with Lotus on the Retro. Mtg. That is a good goal to work towards, but if I understand it....they won't take a couple if there is a third party. So, if she had not ended the A by the time to register,etc., then she's still playing games.

[Kemper]

The earliest Retrouvaille weekend close to where I live is the end of February.

Has she actually said that she is ready to work on the M?

Yes, she even suggested MC, and stated that it will take work on both of our parts. However, to me action speaks louder than words and I haven't seen any action on her part.

Based on a conversation last weekend W mentioned that she has tried to break it off with OM multiple times, but he keeps telling her that everything will be ok, or things will change and she keeps going back to him. During this conversation SHE started throwing out potential solutions to keep him from contacting her. I wasn't trying to fix this or provide input as I feel it is her responsibility to end this.

Since OM works odd hours and lives 800 miles away W said she wanted to break it off over the phone vs. by text/email. She said she was going to do it this week but time will only tell. I understand that people are different but if something is important to me I take action on it ASAP.

As far as W is concerned, I have no interest in moving forward if OM is still in the picture. MC, Retro, to me are contingent on the R with OM being finished.

Again, thank you guys for all the advice and support. It is truly appreciated.

[MHL]

Hey Kemper,

I definitely fall on the other side of letting your W know about breaking up with your GF. I totally get what Sandi and Lotus are saying and in the attraction department, I would definitely agree. I have seen this first hand in my sitch lately.

Isn't this about re-establishing trust in the relationship again....both ways??? You and your wife are finally being honest with each other again. IMO, withholding info is playing games. Now you have helped your W deal with a fear of trying to work on the M which is.....her fear of letting go of OM b/c you could always go back to your GF. You have eliminated that fear for her....GREAT!!!

This is how wars end, two enemies on the battlefield with their guns pointed at each other and you are both talking about a cease fire but someone has to lay down thier gun first......so you laid down your gun first....BIG EFFFING DEAL.

Look you were going to break up with GF anyhow, right?? So it really doesn't matter in the whole scheme of things. If your W does not lay down her gun your not going to pick yours back up....your just going to leave the battlefield.

So, now you are single again and completely approachable by any woman at this point including your W.

IMO, the bigger "stick" for your W is not the threat of YOU going back to your GF but rather YOU getting a whole new GF.....(a new and improved model, with all the latest bells and whistles) get what I am saying here???

Give your W some time and space and YES, be unavailable now!!!

Think about it.....

Before, if you were unavailable she knew you were with GF.....

Now....

She doesn't know WTH you are doing......HMMMMMMMM.....wonder what your W will think about that.....

Tell you what, tell your wife about Missher's dating adventures and then later when she asks what you were doing.....just say "Oh I was out with Missher grabing some beers"

Patience is in order here. And yes there is a time frame for her to act on!!!! Not because you are going to go back to your GF but because you may find someone new!!!

Let your W make the next move for sure, it may take a week or 2 for her to take care of getting rid of the OM. If she suggests that you guys do something together you can inquire about the status of the OM. If she hasn't done her part yet then you can politely, and calmly tell her that until he is 100% out of the picture you guys should not being doing anything together....no matter how bad you want to. PATIENCE is in order here.....TIME and PATIENCE.....

I think reconciliation is not a game to be played, you guys have said you are going to work on it.....you have.....if she doesn't then fine........your done, her loss.

Cheers