I can do this...

[punkin]

Irish,

I think it is natural that your kids are concerned they will have inherited some "gene" that makes them relive their Dad's mistakes. My first husband is gay; therefore, my oldest was worried they would be gay. It's normal.

I don't think this is an inherited type of problem. It's definitely an attitude problem; a state of mind, but those are formed by outside forces. Hopefully, your kids can take it as a learning experience. What NOT to do. The caution signs they should look for in their own lives as they age, and as their spouses age.

My H was fond of throwing up at me " I'm not _______" ( my alcoholic XH) No, he wasn't. He was worse in many ways.

Take comfort in that you are the sane parent, and the one they can turn to for their comfort. They know they can always turn to you; bet they will always be there for you, as well.

[TAMF]

IB - I often wonder about this...can MLC be something that children inherit? My H is the product of adultry. His mother was 35 when she had an affair (was this a case of MLC for her? I don't know) but what is really bizarre is that ALL of my H brothers and sisters have gone through a MLC - all of them between 35 - 40 years old.

Until this happened to my H (who is the baby of the family and the last to go through this)his sisters didn't even realize what had happened to them. Since then, I have had really in-depth conversations with both of them and they are startled at the information I have given them on MLC. They have since then reseached MLC on their own and have admitted that they had all of the signs, emotions, affairs, indifference, selfishness, wanting their life to be different in every way, and then of course the "ah-hah moment" when they stop and say "WTF I am doing!!??" They both remember that moment with such clarity. One of my SIL recovered in time (18 months she was separated from her husband) but they are still together and strong. My other SIL is almost divorced.

I have not talked to my older (12 years older)BIL - who at 35 went through a period where we all felt like he was someone we didn't know. He got a divorce quickly.

We have all talked about how they are just like thier mom - all of them totally messed up. Lots of bad hidden feelings from when they were little and their mom had the affair that produced my H. Too many secrets tear a family apart.

So is it inherited? who knows, but I think there is a strong case for children of a MLC/affair parent to grow up with major issues. Let's all pray that our children are okay when they get older.

[PEI]

Hey ladies!

I'm going to quote myself because it seems relevant ... I wrote out a while ago how I see MLC and it's origins - and no, I don't think one can inherit it, but I do think that siblings in a household, or the children of people who have MLC are probably more at risk because of the environment ... anyway ... for your reading pleasure ...

There is a large amount of anecdotal evidence which supports the idea of a "personal life crisis". The real kicker seems to be the emotional trauma experienced in adolecense WITHOUT the support and coping skills to properly process the event. I'm sure most people have these experiences, and I'm also sure that the trigger event can be much less "traumatic" than other events which do NOT lead to PLC for certain individuals. The pre-PLCer experiences this event, and then suppresses it, never learning proper coping skills as they move forward into adulthood.

As adults we all face trials and tribulations. Childrearing, financial pressure, family issues, you name it. Lots of us live in marriages built on habit and familiarity, taking our partners and ourselves for granted. At some point (frequently after another traumatic event), ALL of us feel like we are getting older and question what we want out of life. Then we look for answers. Some transition through this without as much hardship. Many decide to escape the "harsh" reality of aging/boredom and look elsewhere for their youth to be recreated. These folks are capable of looking at their lives and making choices but until they are held accountable, they don't. And then there is the group, IMO, that are not currently capable of looking inside themselves - regardless of the boundaries and consequenses they face because those consequences are much less painful then the internal closet-cleaning required to reconcile their issues. Childhood sexual, physical and/or emotional abuse, parental alcoholism, sudden death of a loved one, abandonment, neglect ... any or many never dealt with, never counselled, which simmer into a profound depression we call a "crisis". PLCer's, IMO, can not face their current issues until they go back (often literally, via regression) and deal with the emotional devastation they felt as adolecents.

... if you're interested the entire post is at the beginning of my current thread!

Happy New Year!
PEI

[irishblessings]

Thanks all for your perspectives. Much food for thought.

I am in a place right now where I think I am denying the truth about my state of heart. I think I continue to be hurt by H's complete detachment. While I have been dark from him since August - the fact that there has been NO glimmer of hope is disheartening. To me it is as if it validates that he is right and I have been a fool. He has never loved me, never wanted me and our 25 year marriage has been a farce. How could I have been so blind? I always thought of myself as an intuitive person - sensitive to other people's feelings. I find that I am blown away today by the ease with which H disposed of me and created a new life for himself. I want so much to let this go - to not feel this hurt and pain any longer - but it is there - like a boulder in my heart and soul. I know it sounds dramatic - but it is the best way I can describe this heaviness in my heart.

How do I remove this boulder? How do I get rid of the shame I feel for being so stupid? His complete detachment appears to me to be validation of all of the hurtful words and revelations he shared with me.

[PEI]

How do I remove this boulder? How do I get rid of the shame I feel for being so stupid? His complete detachment appears to me to be validation of all of the hurtful words and revelations he shared with me.

Irish,

Be kind to yourself.

My H is completely and totally detached. He has said some very hurtful things in the last year and continues moving forward with his new life with OW. I no longer want him or my marriage back. I too am detached, lovingly. We are friendly and are parallel parenting the best we know how to do. I continue to take the high road and move forward one step at a time, without regrets .

There are few things I know for sure, but I can tell you, that he loved me very much. I now know that our marriage was not perfect, but I will not let him steal our good memories from me. They look back at me from 15 years of smiling photos and the faces of my three children. You are not a fool. Neither am I. Their feelings may have changed, or perhaps they claim they have to rationalize or justify their behaviours and confusion. Who knows. I don't. But I do know he loved me very much the day he married me. And the days our children were born. And many of the days in between. I don't hold onto that to keep me in the past, but to honour it. It was real.

Shame and guilt serve you no purpose. Loving someone is nothing to be ashamed of. Stand with your head high, and move forward on your path Irish.

Peace
PEI

[AntoniaB]

Oh IB, I am entirely, 100% in the same spot as you are right now. The fact that my H has never wavered on this divorce, that he's shown no sign of even considering that he might have done the wrong thing by me and us, and the fact that now we're past the holidays and he never bothered to even send one text or thank me for the gift I gave him OR check in to see if things are ok now (I am in a blizzard and you know, you think he'd at least be worried about the HOUSE as it's still his property too...) All this makes me feel like he must be right and I must be wrong and the person he left me for really is better for him and blah blah blah. I get you 100%.

And I feel like it serves me no purpose any more to look at the pics or think of the time we were together happy and think anything good of it. I feel like what's the point? I can never have that back. He doesn't want me. Maybe we were never right for each other. Maybe I made a huge mistake being with him for all those years. I feel that every day now and I feel like that is getting worse.

The thing with my H is that the one thing in the world he is best at is hiding his emotions. He learned to hide any problems with his parents from the time he grew up as an abuse victim. He learned to hide his problems from me. He will continue, I think, to hide his problems from the OW. I don't see him ever coming out of this fog and facing anything. I think that's why he seems to have forgotten me altogether now. As long as she is there to distract him, he says he is happy.

I don't even know anymore if he ever loved me. There was a time right before he left me the second time where he said "I don't know if I'm capable of really loving anyone." That says it all.

So I'm really struggling in the same way you are right now with thinking maybe he's right and his silence reinforces that. And that makes me feel like a fool too.

I'm trying very hard to take PEI's words to heart. But I can't even envision being friendly with H anymore since the level of betrayal to me feels so severe.

I feel like my brain is trying to make me hate him and forget him at this point, like he's just a character in a story that I lived once. I'm sure it's a defense mechanism against further hurt. I don't know if it's good for me to think that way or not.

I don't even know if this post helps you but I just wanted to say I'm feeling exactly the same as you and it is horrible. The only solace I have is to try to ignore it or think of the things that are good in my life and the connections with those who haven't just dropped me as if I do not exist.

[AntoniaB]

Incidentally, IB, there is one way to look at the silence that might be positive. Not trying to put false hope out there, but the fact is that the silence may mean that your H is fully and completely wrapped up in the OW and this isn't always a good thing in the end for their relationship. Back when I used to post on the infidelity board, the advice often said that if the LBS could be dark/detached from the WAS, that the WAS would stop "cake-eating" and then get 100% wrapped up in the affair, and often that seems great for them in the beginning but it does also open the relationship up to problems. No longer are they just seeing one another when they're in great moods, but they're trying to negotiate the day-to-day, and sometimes they find it isn't all it's cracked up to be. I mean, according to Penny Tupy's book Overcoming Infidelity, you and I are in the perfect spot right now to heal ourselves and to force our H's to live a life entirely without us, and that is probably better for us in the long run than if they were in and out of our lives confusing the heck out of us, up one day, down the next. It might send them to a place where they realize they went down the wrong path, but it will also put us in a position to better negotiate life without them and be more independent. Every day of independence from them makes us stronger. So maybe that's a silver lining.

[TAMF]

Irish - PEI could NOT have said it better! Don't let him take your happy memories away. They were real for you and for him. Keep the memories in your heart as you move forward. 25 years is a blessing...so many don't even get a fraction of that kind of love.

[PEI]

Antonia ... I can't be five years old anymore, but I don't give up those memories and pretend I wasn't happy at that point. If he wasn't capable of loving anyone (and FTR I don't really believe this to be true, but it explains how he felt at the time) then that is NOT about you. It's about his emotional availabitlity and maturity.

Ladies ... I hate to say it, but all of this shame and anger screams lack of self confidence to me. This is really about you! IMO, it seems that you don't feel worthy of love, that you don't have the confidence to know you deserve it, and had it. And we call all say we believe it ... but do you? Really? Deep down, in the dark of night ... do you truly believe it?

If you love yourself and understand that your H's crisis is about him, then you don't feel inadequate or unlovable or insignificant. His crisis is not about you.

I feel a lot of compassion for my stbXH ... what ever he had going on inside had to be very painful and ugly to drive his decisions and choices over the last year. I know I did the best I could with what I had at the time. I'm not a monster and I wasn't perfect. I have three beautiful children to walk forward into the rest of my life with. And I will walk forward, confident and self aware of my strengths and my weaknesses. This crisis was his, but it was my opportunity.

Peace
PEI

[AntoniaB]

I'm sure it has everything to do with lack of self-confidence or inadequacy. I have no doubt that I'm lovable and that lots of people care very deeply for me. They did before this marriage fell apart and they do still, probably even more now (friends and family). My problem is that since the only serious relationship I ever had in my life was with him--he was the only man to ever say he loved me and he was the only man I've ever said it to as well--I'm feeling entirely unlovable from a romantic standpoint. No amount of friends or familial love can replace this type of love that I "thought" I had, but now I'm not so sure, and I guess until someone else ever notices me and loves me romantically, I'll feel like I've lost something I can "never get back again." My self-esteem in general is really high--it's the romantic self-esteem--love from a significant other--that has taken a huge hit that I feel like will take years to rebuild.