W and I went out last night. I picked her up at her place and we drove to an indoor go-karting venue. The conversation on the way was light and enjoyable. We spent about a half hour racing around before we decided to head back towards her house to get a bite to eat.
Had dinner and again the conversation was light and enjoyable. No discussion about our M, the A, or anything that would be considered R talk.
During the course of the night I opened her door for her each time we had to drive somewhere. I would occasionally put my hand on the small of her back as we were walking.
After dinner I took her back to her place. We were outside her condo saying goodnight and she leaned in to hug and kiss me. We hugged and kissed for a little bit and then said good night.
There were a few comments from W that stick out from last night. Before she got out of the car she said that it felt good to go out with me and not being going out "as parents". We never did a good job of putting each other first after having children. Another comment she made was that she wanted to take it slow and get to know me again.
M 33 | W 34 | Kids: S4, S3 M: 5/28/05 Bomb: 8/22/09 EA: 8/1/09 | PA 12/26/09 W L: 10/21/09 M L: 11/16/09 | 12/09 to file SA W & Boys Move Out: 3/14/10
I was talking with a friend yesterday and during the conversation became concerned that my W had lied to me the night before when we were out. Given that my biggest issue with her A is the lying and deceit I decided to sit down and write out a boundary.
Quote:
When you lie, even about little things, I feel that there is no way that I could ever trust you again. I want to be able to trust you again.
If you lie to me again I will confront you so that we can determine if there is a misunderstanding. If you continue to lie I will move forward with our separation/divorce without any consideration for reconciliation.
I called W and asked if she had a few minutes to talk. I calmly brought up our discussion and how I felt that she had lied to me. I stated my boundary and she said that she totally understood, she wants me to be able to trust her and that she didn't lie and we discussed it.
The discussion then turned to us. At one point she started crying and said that it doesn't feel like sorry is enough. I told her that it was a start. She told me a story about talking with one of our friends who point blank asked her about the A. Our friend told her that he thought I would be able to forgive her. My W told him that she didn't think she could forgive herself. The conversation covered may topics around trust, reconciling taking work, not wanting to be anyones second choice, etc. I remained calm and validated her feelings during the conversation.
She called later and we just had some small talk around Christmas gifts for the boys. We had talked in the past about her coming to the house on Christmas morning to be here with the boys to open presents. I said the offer was still on the table. She said she didn't want to feel like a stranger in the house and would think about it.
Last night I attended a Christmas party with the boys at one of their friend’s house. Their friend happens to be a little girl that we met one day at a local indoor playground. Her mother is the one that introduced me to GF so of course the GF was there. The kids played and we ate before opening presents. After presents we headed home.
Disclaimer: As far as my sons are concerned my GF is just a friend. They don't see her often at all and they have only met her in neutral settings and there is no PDA when my sons are around.
When we left I noticed that my W called 3 times and sent a couple of texts. I called her back and told her that I was sorry I missed her calls but the phone was charging in the car. We had small talk about what she picked up for the boys for Christmas. Then she asked if I was with GF tonight. I told her that we were and she proceeded to say she had a friend over but wanted to talk today.
This morning I got a text from W. "I don't want to feel like I'm the second choice just like you don't" I responded with, "I completely understand. I don't want you to feel like you are second choice".
Since my last text 3 hours ago there have been no responses but I figured I would let W think about what it is she actually wants. She has not come out and stated that she wants to work on the M. She has not dropped OM or stated she intended to.
At this point I am just taking things one day at a time. I am trying to ensure my W feel comfortable during our conversations to see if she opens up more.
Happy Holidays to everyone. Do something good for yourself no matter where you are in your situation.
M 33 | W 34 | Kids: S4, S3 M: 5/28/05 Bomb: 8/22/09 EA: 8/1/09 | PA 12/26/09 W L: 10/21/09 M L: 11/16/09 | 12/09 to file SA W & Boys Move Out: 3/14/10
W and I had a long conversation on Christmas Eve after the boys went to bed. To make a long story short she said she wanted to work on the M. We talked a lot about the past, our M, and the A. W wanted to know if I would be open to going to MC. She realizes there is a lot of work that needs to happen by both of us. Her one concern is that I will never be able to trust her again. She understands that gaining the trust back would take time. After the conversation I kept asking myself if I wanted to try, was I being played, should I give it a shot. After our conversation I sent a text and asked W to check out Retrouvaille if she was serious about us and making it work. She said she would check it out.
The boys, my mother, and I had a great Christmas morning. After presents I dropped them off at W's house so they could also spend Christmas there. When I got there W gave me a gift my oldest son made. We made small talk and as I was getting ready to go she hugged me.
As planned I went to spend the afternoon at GF's house. W sent a txt during the afternoon to see if she could pick up my son's Leapster on Sunday. I called to talk to the boys and ask about their Christmas later in evening. W asked if she could also pick up our dog when she got the Leapster and I said no problem.
I fell asleep early Christmas night and woke up this morning with a few text messages from W. The first one was asking about this Friday and if I had off of work. Then she asked if I was busy after not getting a response. She stated that I must be busy at GF's house but then said it wasn't any of her business.
I responded this morning and answered her questions but didn't address any of the text messages about GF's house. I called her and said that I could bring the Leapster and dog over after I finished a few things around the house.
I got to W's condo and said that I was going to grab a coffee or bite to eat and asked if she wanted to go. She said sure but asked if I could help her put a shelf together.
We put the shelf together, I talked with her mom, and then we all took the boys outside to play in the snow. After that my W and I went out to grab a bite to eat. It started off with normal conversation but turned to us.
I validated her feelings, concerns, and fears during the conversation. My W is a very closed person and to this day it is still frustrating to talk to her sometimes and feel how closed she is.
At one point we talked about her breaking it off with OM. I comforted her and told her that I understood how hard it must be. I know my W has feelings for OM or she would have never left the marriage. I also know their R isn't doing great at all and she has stayed to justify herself in her decision to give up on the M. I am not saying it is going to be easy to break it off but it MUST be done. We talked again about no contact and she stated that she might change her number so that he can't call/text her. OM works odd hours because of his job and due to that W said she was going to break it off this week so she doing it over the phone vs. by txt/email.
We ended the day with some hugs and kisses. I shot her a text when I got home and said thank you for an enjoyable afternoon. That I do not want ever interaction to turn into a serious conversation but I think we are at a point right now where there is too much unsaid that needs to be put on the table. She agreed and said that she has enjoyed spending time with me and we are doing a good job of having open and honest conversations.
2x4s welcome here. What am I missing? What can or should I be doing to improve my chances of a successful reconciliation? I will say that I am not afraid of divorce. However, I do not want to look back 10 years from now and ask myself why I didn't try everything I could to save my M.
M 33 | W 34 | Kids: S4, S3 M: 5/28/05 Bomb: 8/22/09 EA: 8/1/09 | PA 12/26/09 W L: 10/21/09 M L: 11/16/09 | 12/09 to file SA W & Boys Move Out: 3/14/10
One thing I forgot to mention is during our conversation today W said she looked at the Retrouvaille site. She said that it didn't sound like something she wanted to do. W said that she was thinking more along the lines of going to a MC. I said that they didn't have to be mutually exclusive.
I told her that I wasn't sure if I was open to not doing it. I said I didn't need an answer right now but that I really wanted her to think about it because it was important to me given what I have heard on these boards about Retrouvaille.
Am I being stupid to push the issue of Retrouvaille or should I stick to what is comfortable for my W?
M 33 | W 34 | Kids: S4, S3 M: 5/28/05 Bomb: 8/22/09 EA: 8/1/09 | PA 12/26/09 W L: 10/21/09 M L: 11/16/09 | 12/09 to file SA W & Boys Move Out: 3/14/10
In your timeline you say that you tried MC and it was not effective, and she was still seeing OM at the same time. I think you should refuse to repeat the mistakes of the past, and that is one of them. I would insist on Retrouvaille. She says she wants to be your first choice and she wants you to be her first choice. Then she needs to act on that, and going to Retrouvaille with an open mind and a willing heart is proof of that. That is all anyone will ask of her at Retrouvaille, that she go there with an open mind and a willing heart. Under those conditions, Retrouvaille is many times more effective than MC. And, if she wants to continue with MC after, that is fine.
I will NOT attempt MC nor will I continue down any path of reconciliation if OM is still in the picture. In my opinio W has this week to close that door for good.
I have heard good things about Retrouvaille. I agree that my W at least going and trying will speak volumes to her commitment. I don't mind going to MC, and am open to it, but I feel that Retrouvaille is the first steps that we need to take.
M 33 | W 34 | Kids: S4, S3 M: 5/28/05 Bomb: 8/22/09 EA: 8/1/09 | PA 12/26/09 W L: 10/21/09 M L: 11/16/09 | 12/09 to file SA W & Boys Move Out: 3/14/10
Most places offer Retrouvaille 4 times per year. There will be many weekends available in January. You can call the contact person for your area and speak to him or her. They would be happy to talk to your wife about what to expect. Many people are afraid of the weekend, for some reason. But there is nothing to fear. It is not a place where spouses are encouraged to spend time blaming each other for the past. In fact, they are much more interested in the future. And blaming is out. Don't worry if she is not very willing to go. Most couples have at least one spouse not very willing to be there, and many have two! But they show up, and many, many of them, have very good results.
