Am I piecing? Just can't tell...

[sandi2]

This is what you need to focus on:

W said things were better and she is committed to our M but that we need to go slow. All that is fine and I understand...

Not This:

Here is why I am annoyed;

[Sad_but_happy]

Thanks Deep and Sandi, you are both so right and I will not look for OW myself...

I need to vent then I will apply logic.

Here we go...

This is BULLCR_P!!! The WAS does something so dishonest and dangerous and harmful to a marriage and then the LBS needs to change? If I had any B_lls at all, I would have told my WAW to leave and find a new place to live because I AM MOVING ON!!! And then I guarantee you SHE would regret!

I look at my W and wonder what in Gods good name is keeping me with her. Let me see now, From the standpoint of character, she has been dishonest and rude and hurtful. From the standpoint of contributing to the marriage financially, she hardly does (got an hourly job that could not support a head of lettuce). From the standpoint of eductaion she has no college under her belt. From the standpoint of aspirations, she has no clue as to what she would love to do. No dream job, etc...

So I wonder, do I want her only because OM wants her? Because I KNOW that OM would at some point dump her because he does not know the real her... Do I want her because I want my family to stay together? Do I want her out of fear of change? Do I want her because she is the mother of my children?

I wish I could say that I want her because she is the absolute love of my life, but I can't. I love her but I can almost bet dollars to donuts that there is someone better for me...


OK, got that off my chest...


Update;
Last night went well and as usual I was affectionate. Not overly but showed affection and she did not resist. I believe her feelings will come back.

I really need to know if I should start again with small gifts and flowers. If she is trying to get the feeling back then I can only assume that corting her will help the process. I know if I was on the fence and someone was showing me love and affection I would respond positivly...

It seems that at the stage I am it can only help... Anyone agree?

[sandi2]

I really need to know if I should start again with small gifts and flowers. If she is trying to get the feeling back then I can only assume that corting her will help the process. I know if I was on the fence and someone was showing me love and affection I would respond positivly...

It seems that at the stage I am it can only help... Anyone agree?

I had read a post of yours on another person's thread. You said something to the effect that flowers & gifts were women's LL. However, it isn't every woman's. It is not mine and would really turn me off at the stage your W is at right now. However, if you know for certain that it is your W's LL, then you could start very slowly with little inexpensive things. Like, seeing something cute that reminds you of when you first met her, first date, some funny memory, etc. But I would shy away from anything serious. Keep it light.

Okay, you vented, so now I am going to respond to that vent and the way I've seen you talk in other posts. Not trying to be ugly, just think you need to see this from another POV.

Please, please do not pursue her with physical affection! Just b/c she is not pushing you away does not mean she's inviting it. She is TRYING to cooperate and you are pushing too hard.

You cannot say what you would want if you were in her place b/c you have not experienced it and all you are wanting is to justify what YOU WANT! I think she's doing a darn good job, but you are not satisfied b/c it's not going fast enough you.

You are asking why you want her? Why does she want you? Have you ever wondered why a woman would want to stay with any man who was so arrogrant? I have read over and over how you express what a great H you've been, and in so many words you are saying that she is is lucky to have you! Oh really? Maybe that is why she was turning to some man who appreciated her. Ever thought about that? Ever thought that your aggrogrance just gets to be more than she can bear? Trust me, if it comes out in your writing, it comes out in your MR. Now you need to decide just how valuable you the she is to you. If you have made this girl feel unworthy due to her not-so-super paying job, or her lack of a college education, or for any other reason....SHAME ON YOU! God commands the man to cherish his W. God did not command the W to cherish her H. Interesting,huh?

Money is not everything. Education and an impressive job title is not everything. But her feeling that she is the most valuable element in the life of her H......that's about as high as you can go with love. Maybe in your heart you feel that way toward her and assumed she knew. But I dare say that she needed to be told and to be shown.

How important did she feel her place in life was whenever you were in a group of people talking? How were you refer to her? Sometimes it little things we get careless about.

Search your heart and memory.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

SBH,

I know if I was on the fence and someone was showing me love and affection I would respond positivly...

Here is the possible problem with the small gifts, You know you would respond positivly...

What happens if she doesn't respond the way you want her too?

The little gifts, flowers? Ehhh...make a change and monitor results, so its not a bad idea. However it is a horrible idea if you put your expecations of how she is supposed to react to them on her.

They could help.
But your expecations could hurt you.

Make sense?

[Harrier]

Come one Sandi...you absolute defense of the WAW is pretty sad. Sometimes people just do horrible things to each other. I have echoed those sentiments that you wrote to SBH in other posts (I called it feeling superior)
I think its sad that the best you can come up with is that SBN never had an EA so he doesn't know. That's horse hockey. We can never walk in our spouses shoes so we can never know what they think/feel even when times are good. You have to have some communication with your spouse. It's key.
I get it you think SBH is impatient. I would challenge you with this, you haven't experiences what he is going through so you can't say either.

In spite of what I wrote, I agree with the basic sentiment you expressed and have tried to convey that to SBH. But you really have no idea how hard it is to deal with this on a daily basis. You got to WA. You got to have your emotional needs meet by someone other than your spouse. You got that intoxicating feeling, an escape from the drudgery of married life. The LBS gets NONE of that and to them it seems unfair..even if they had a hand in it. Nothing, in my mind, excuses any affair. No action of the LBS could justify it. But the LBS is expected to take the lion share of the blame.

I am thankful that my wife at least had the decency to admit that she shares in the blame for our issues and and she said nothing I did excuses the EA.
Unlike SBH, I love my wife dearly and cannot imagine being with anyone else for the rest of my years. I have loved her for 17+ years and that's what makes the EA so painful. So next time you get on your horse think of that.

[Sad_but_happy]

Sandi,

This is not a fight with you, it is a discussion. This is going to sound very angry but trust me I'm really not angry at all. These are just some of my feelings. And thank God for this board because I get to vent here.

If I sound arrogant, GOOD! You know why? Because I DO deserve to be treated better and SHE IS lucky to have me and I AM a good person and I AM a good father.

I am not an arrogant person in any way shape or form... And I don't think my W would say that I am. But this process absolutely hardens a person. Our walls go up because of not only the hurt of the initial betrayal but the days and weeks and months and years following it because the WAS is usually unrepentant.

And I have every right to question why I would be attracted to HER! Isn't that what she is doing? I don't feel she's less of a person though I understand it came out that way. But this process does make one question the qualities of the other person. The WAS opens themselves to this microscopic analysis of their character and their flaws...

And there ARE some things I would love to point to that would make me say WOW, I love this woman and I want her because she is so sweet to me, or she ML in a way that makes me feel great, or she is so kind or she is there for me through thick and thin. But SHE took even those things away by having an EA and then questioning if she is in love. So yes, she has opened herself up to be judged much like she judged me.

And lastly, all WAS seem to forget one thing! That problems in a marriage are caused by two people! BOTH people not meeting the needs of the other person. But then what happens? The WAS does something even MORE WRONG! Now not only are they not meeting their spouses needs, they are also cheating, lying, sneaking and giving themselves to another person. You WAS's are so consumed with all YOUR hurt and what YOU are missing. It almost justifies the wrong that the WAS does.

This wrong is no longer 50/50... This once mutual wrong is now 90% wrong for the WAS and 10% wrong for the LBS because of what THEY CHOOSE to do. I realize in DB that we are not supposed to say or think this but let's at least be honest here...



And I love this:

"I have read over and over how you express what a great H you've been, and in so many words you are saying that she is is lucky to have you! Oh really? Maybe that is why she was turning to some man who appreciated her. Ever thought about that?"

She turned to another man because she is weak! That's the only reason. It's classic to place any portion of the blame on the LBS but I am convinced that her "turning to some other man" is 100% HER FAULT as it was 100% YOUR FAULT! No one makes anyone do anything. If you want to find love elsewhere, be honest, tell your H, and seperate or D. Don't sneak, lie, and cheat and then look at your S and say, "this is your fault"... WRONG!




Now as far as affection, I appreciate your honesty. I will cut it back more and let her come to me. I think you are correct there. I DO want my family and I WILL work as hard as I need to get my W back!

Thanks Sandi

[angel61]

[quote=Sad_but_happy]I look at my W and wonder what in Gods good name is keeping me with her.

I know. I ask myself why I stay with my H when he says he does not want me.But all I could say is I do love him with all my heart, I cannot think of feeling that way with another man, and I believe he will come back to me one day. I am inspired by Sandi's story, I think the same thing will apply to both men and women.

I am also on that journey of getting to be closer to my H, trying to attract him back to me. Its hard, because not only are we trying to fulfill their needs, but we also have to suppress ours. Physical touch is one of my LL's, and I find myself trying to discern his body language, trying to see if my touch is welcome or not, and as of now, I am frustrated. I think for a woman rejection is even more hurtful.

I am thankful for little changes, like over the weekend, I noticed that he was no longer clinging to the edge of the mattress. I tentativiely massaged his neck when we woke up, and he told me his lower back hurt and so I did his lower back. He was definitely more receptive to my touch this time, and this made me feel better.

We had a good day yesterday, we went to the mall and he brought me to one of his favorite stores and asked me if I wanted a coat, which was what he was thinking of giving me for Christmas!

I hope its a sign that he is slowly recovering from his depression over losing OW.

[InAPickle]

I wonder the same thing a lot.
My WAW is not the same woman I fell in love with and married.
In fact she has become quite unattractive b/c of her attitude toward me and of course her choices.
I'd never fall for the shrew she has become.

But then I think I'll be damned if I am going to toss 18 of marriage years in the trash and ruin my children's lives and psyches.
I know I could fall in love w/her again, if DBing works.
These are the only things keeping me at it.

[Sad_but_happy]

Me too Pickle... I am in this for the long haul. I DO love my W but because I am "not allowed" to be visably angry or hurt with her at home (due to DB strategy) then I vent here and I hurt here.

And Sandi, think of the emotional toll this takes on a MAN. We don't have anyone to vent to. No group of men want to hear about our pain (unlike women who are there for each other emotionally and support one another). I actually have a friend who's W left him. He is so sad and distraut (it's been almost a year). The attitude of his guy friends is to get over it and go out and get as many woman as you can. They say "what's his problem" and to "get over it".. They don't understand why he is so sad. They mean well but they are men. And until faced with this, men don't get it...

So here I sit by myself with no one to vent to, a hole in my chest as deep as the Grand canyon because the only person I could confide in emotionally decided to have an EA...

All that said...

I will walk in the house today and meet/greet my W with a smile and a hug (no kiss on the cheek). I will not initiate spooning tonight which means we will not spoon

I will continue to DB. I realize that I have it better then 90% of the people on this site. But realize that my knowing that not take my pain away.

I am actually hanging with some friends tonight so the W and kids get to spend some time home alone. It will be a good night for all.

[sgctxok]

SBH,

I know if I was on the fence and someone was showing me love and affection I would respond positivly...

Here is the possible problem with the small gifts, You know you would respond positivly...

What happens if she doesn't respond the way you want her too?

The little gifts, flowers? Ehhh...make a change and monitor results, so its not a bad idea. However it is a horrible idea if you put your expecations of how she is supposed to react to them on her.

They could help.
But your expecations could hurt you.

Make sense?

I agree