Am I piecing? Just can't tell...

[MrBond]

"I'm sure she has never read DB/DR."

Ask her. Or ask her if she's ever heard the position of "standing" for your marriage. First and foremost though, she should be pro-marriage. If she's not, then you should find someone else. You should have someone who is willing to uphold the belief in marriage and will work to that end. Not someone who works on what your W is feeling now.

My W and I went to one marriage counseling session after I found out about her EA. She went right in and said it was over and the sooner we were D'd the better. The counselor looked at me and said that there was nothing he could do and that was the last time I saw him.

I recently ran into him and he asked how things were. I told him we were still married (although separated), however we have re-established our friendship. He was very surprised because at the time there was no changing my W's tune.

I really believe that you have to adapt your DBing based on your own circumstances. Not just because everyone's different, but also because everyone's timing is different. I believe DB touches upon doing things at the right time. Like if you know your W isn't a morning person, you don't start a R talk at 7 a.m.

[Harrier]

SBH

My thoughts. First on your need for some initiation by her part. I would let that go for now and I would back off a little myself. It sounds like aren't giving her the chance to come to you. It does get easier, but remember there a lot of way someone shows they care for you beside hugs, kisses, etc. Especially since your W isn't a physical person. Why would you expect this monumental change in who she is now? My IC is awesome and he reminded me of that this morning. In a marriage, especially a long marriage we have different ways of communication caring for your partner. Now for you it might be hugs, kisses, spooning etc. But that doesn't mean you W is on the same page right now and you can't assume that because she doesn't initiate those things she isn't filling your love bucket.
She at her actions. Does she pull away? Does she ask questions about your life? Does she care when you are upset or sad? How does she interact and what does your gut tell you about all these things?
I understand how you can feel that time would make things worse, but a BIG part of that is your reaction to the time. You are seeing her actions through your world and you assume the worst about her. You think that she doesn't say those things because she doesn't want to work on the M. Wrong. You need to stop assuming her motivation. I know it's hard, but I think the idea is to just live in the now a little bit instead of looking to the future and a decision. Enjoy the company, the spooning and the conversation.

Like JTB said, three months isn't really that long of time. 3 years of limbo and I'd agree.

Personally, I'd look for a new IC. But to some extent she is right about approaching your wife or challenging her. You know the time for that better than the IC. The potential move also adds to wanting to know.

[angel61]

I have been searching for threads on what to do after EA ends and saw this, and just want to know that all your posts and ruminations are so helpful to me.So if you guys don't mind, I will add my story to yours so whoever gives you advice I can read too!
H's EA ended 11/26. H was depressed, wanted to try to reconnect with OW, and do a trial S, at that point I said no trial S, lets just D if you really want an OW in your life, and he backed off. I stated my desire to work on our M, and to do MC and retouvaille.This was all just 4 days ago. First time I ever set boundaries.
I now have been experiencing what all of you here are and have same questions.
I even have the same observation about looks - my H looks so good with all that MLC working out, that my physical attraction to him has come back full force. Good thing for my self esteem I have also lost weight and am looking good too. My dilemma is that during the time he had an EA, I became the initiator in ML, for a couple of reasons: did not want his EA becoming a PA for lack of intimacy, and also, it was a 180 for me as I had been distant.
Now I feel that I should hold back and wait for him to initiate, but I am not sure if that's the right thing to do....
I know the loss of control of the situation for him (he used to threaten me with S and I always backed off before) is making him resentful towards me. We used to have more fun conversations while he had EA, after that everything became strained. I used to show him affection during that time with hugs, would text him ILY every now and then. I wish I could do it again now but he seems colder, although there are friendly moments, so that I am now unsure.
I don't know if the fact that I am the female changes things when it comes to the physical side, as traditionally, the males are the more aggressive ones.

[Sad_but_happy]

You are both correct and I appreciate the 2x4. My IC actually seems to flirt a bit. I will not lie about her being an attractive educated woman. I have no interest in her at all but I believe she might like me. Again, those are only my feelings so I may be reading her wrong.


Harrier, thanks for that. She has been showing that she cares more in other ways. Things she HAS done:

*Now turns on my side of the electric blanket (something she stopped doing)

*Texts me pics of the things she does in work

*Saved ONLY ME a piece of cake

*Makes dinner for me every night

*She again started to iron MY laundry (she had stopped)

*Brings my wine or beer

*Friendly every morning and night

*Great conversations

*No longer stays on the edge of the bed (we meet in the middle)

*Does not reject the physical contact

*Talks of our future


I guess I need to stop assuming what's in HER head and just be happy to be where I am. My wife is home, she is not cold or angry and she still takes care of me. And she MUST care about me. Slow and steady. Keep saying it...

Believe it or not, I vent here but am a rock at home. I've come so far from the crying and depression I first felt...

She asked me so many times for space at first and I just couldn't give it to her. After reading DB/DR and I gave her the space she DID change dramatically! It does work but there is nothing harder in the world!

Not being loved by the one you love kills. But worse is NEVER being loved by the one you love. Especially if you can get it back through hard work.

you guys have again helped me through a difficult day!

Thank you!

[Sad_but_happy]

You are welcome to stay Angel and vent away! We can help each other.

I will tell you that I no longer say, "I love you" to my W. I desperately want to and I desperately want to hear it but I will not say it until I hear that she is 100% invested in the marriage. The last 5 times I said it I got, "thank you", or "I know"... Forgive me but that is crap and that is "the fog". You don't spend 21 years with someone and then stop loving them. So I don't put any merrit to her lack in response.

I believe in non-sexual touch. I touch on the arm or leg. Hold it only for a second (which is long enough to give that electric pulse of warmth without being sexual).

When talking to your H, look into his eyes as if you are intently listening (not gazing).

My boundary was/is firm on OM. If he's in the picture then W is out of the house. I will not give up dignity or self-respect! And W would not respect me if I let her eat cake!

If she wants to eat cake she can do it in the cold crule world alone. Not while being 100% supported by me! I will not support her ability to EA/PA OM.

That boundary seems to be unpopular with some on this board. But everyone is an individual...

Stay here and post your issues as often as you like.

Thanks for checking in...

[sandi2]

Want to hear something sad,but typical of WAW in an A? I knew exactly what my H was doing when he would tell me right out of the blue...."I love you". I knew he was wanting me to say it back to him. I didn't. Then it would make him angry.

It must be very hard to not express your love for your S when you have such deep feelings. But you are doing the right thing, for now, by not saying those things that will actually cause pressure for her. It may be difficult to understand why that would be pressure, and I can't really explain it...I just know that it was for me. It seem to cause me to feel more resentment. I know that's not what you want from her.

You remind me of my H and so many others that have said how they want to know the WAW is in the M 100%. Oh, did I hear that, too! But, I could not tell him that for a while. I wasn't even sure that I could. Those first months are so hard for both people. Just try to let her be willing "to be willing" to work on the MR. Every day is a baby step. May not be what you prefer, but it may be all she can do right now.

((hugs))

[Sad_but_happy]

Thanks Sandi2, I do kinda understand...

You see, I drove her away. Not because I didn't love her, but because she is sooo difficult to live with. I am a happy-go-lucky guy and she is rigid and strict. There was a time, not so long ago, that hearing her say that she wanted "out" would have been music to my ears. I have options too. Quite a few. And I will admit that I really wanted to explore them. I didn't but I really wanted too.

I would tell her for years that all I wanted was to enjoy her, be happy, ML, laugh every day and relax. Those are things she finds hard (not the ML). So I admit that I wanted out. And when OM came into her life, she saw options. I get it and I hold 50% of the blame.

That does not provide an excuese for her but I see how from an animal/human stand-point it can happen. She was lonely and I was not there.

When I took OM away or made her choose, she didn't want to go back to not having options, in essence, not having control. She felt alive and wanted. So I understand her anger.

I will tell you that in the last 3 weeks the following progression has taken place:

*Her hanging onto the edge of the bed to meeting in the middle

*From no hug to hugging almost everytime we see each other

*From no kissing to kissing on the cheek

*And tonight we hit the side of our mouths with a kiss


I never talk about our relationship. I just act strong and live like everything is fine. Never pressure her. Help her every day (not because I'm afraid she will leave but because I truly feel its the right thing to do).

I have learned to love and focus on the good things about her and that provides me with hope the I can live with HER forever. Yes, this is a two way street and WAS's really need to know that. As soon as the LBS becomes indifferent it's too late.

That's why I say that this is a dangerous game. The clock ticks for both people.


As far as saying ILY I feel that it adds to the WAS guilt so they block out their feelings. I really don't believe you can actually stop loving someone after a long relationship but you can feel as if you don't love them. I believe it's part of the fog. Part of the utopia they see once they are "free" of their S. But that utopia is a fantasy. It's left many people, many families destroyed!


Thx for checking in Sandi... Love hearing from you...

((Sandi2))

[MrBond]

"You remind me of my H and so many others that have said how they want to know the WAW is in the M 100%. "

Hmmm could one of them have been me? : )

[Sad_but_happy]

Thanks Bond,
I believe it is a man thing. We need direction one way or another. We are problem solvers.

And to a man this is a problem that needs to be solved.

Not solving it (good or bad) goes against our very being!

That's why I believe this is so difficult for men. We have to learn to think differently. Reprogram out brain.

Not easy but doable!

[MrBond]

For me I looked at it like a science experiment. I was looking for a certain result and did a few things to exact that result. Some of the things I did acted like a catalyst to speed things up to a positive result, sometimes I would get a negative result. The things that got a negative result I stopped doing and did more of the positive things.

Of course that didn't stop me from sometimes getting caught on the rollercoaster as well. You are right. It is do-able. First step, get your balls back from your W so you're not driven by fear.