Living Like Roommates

[Sad_but_happy]

I hear ya Punchy... But I will tell you this.. After I told my W to end it, she hated me... No love at all... She completely shut down emotionally... It did hurt bad... She even told me, "we are no longer a couple.". This after 21 years together. But after only 4 weeks we talk every night, have wine every night. She has again started talking of our future and I think we are piecing. Now I know that things progress at different paces and yes, you could risk losing her...

But in my opinion if she continues an EA she is already gone... I mean do you really have her?

I Wes and am ready to follow through if she CHOOSES to go back to OM. I'll be fine... It's her that will suffer...

Proceed cautiously but confidently... Regain your respect and dignity...

[angel61]

No, SBH, not to see OW but to have alone time to think.

But if he does go to see OW, I already have decided that I will tell him to go, and not come back. no more cake eating. Thats done!

[25yearsmlc]

I'm not that far away from a mental breakdown, but do not want to do anything that long term would put me farther away from a possible reconnection with my wife.

I hear you punchy, I really do. I've now been m for 30 years and been thru a few storms. 20 years ago, I almost had an A, and I'm sure SBh would say I had an EA and for some reason, "that's worse"...I worked it out myself with a lot of inner searching and help from others, and H never learned of it. But here's what I learned and how I learned it and what WOULD have happened if my h had tried to punish, shame or teach a lesson, to ME at that time...

NOTE- I justified it at the time quite well. My h was immersed in his internship/residency and his hours were horrible, and relentless, with no end in sight. We had two kids then, and we both worked full time and had to move often b/c we were military (I joined b/c of his obligation). When he was home, which was rare enough, he was so tired and sleep deprived he was NOT fun to have around at all, nor was he helpful. Then, There was a war in the Gulf, and it was ME who got deployed, not h. Well, Rather than go on justifying it to you now, suffice to say, at the time, I was neglected. I felt resentful, unfairly burdened by h's choices, and lonely a lot, and over a long time. as in, YEARS. Like most women, I justified it. I did not feel I was immoral or "terribly wrong."

I think MOST WOMEN WHO HAVE AFFAIRS, (EMOTIONAL OR PHYSICAL), HAVE THEM B/C OF UNMET NEEDS.

SOMETIMES THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SPOUSES, SOMETIMES IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THEM. BUT WE JUSTIFY IT! SO telling us how wrong we are and refusing to look at your role in it, isn't going to be productive at all.

As I said, I worked it out myself. I saw the chaplain and the shrink and spoke to a few close friends who knew me well and talked out "reality" of an affair. (As in "where will this REALLY lead you & IS is worth it?") Never told h, (although I did tell him about feeling resentful and neglected.)
Here's the thing...
IF H had learned of my internal struggle, and tried to shame me or humiliate me or punish me for feeling Unloved by HIM.... I would have bolted in outrage at him. He'd force me to defend my choices and to "be right" and Not a "wanton woman" so I'd have justified the whole thing and been more united with OM,
rather than exploring the pros and cons and figuring out for myself what was right.

For me, The image I could not bear to see was tears in my h's eyes or my kids' eyes, if I were to announce a divorce to them. THAT image so moved me I had to try everything BUT an affair, to make sure I was not going down the wrong track. At the time, I actually thought I was in love with OM. He was very attentive and upbeat, whereas h was AWOL and grumpy and sleep deprived, with no end in sight to his hours. At the time, I totally felt h had caused the "almost A" and that it was due to MY superior morality and conscience that I was somehow able to stay faithful. Ironic perhaps, but true. If the image in my mind were of h yelling at me or self righteously condemning me, I'd have divorced him.Before finalizing the r into an "A", I sought counselling from a chaplain and a shrink b/c this "almost A", was very out of character for me and I was very torn. I was extremely attracted to OM and interpreted this as "love". Coupled with the neglect and irritability from H, it was easy to justify at the time. Still I felt a lot of guilt.


See, I felt that h had more or less pushed me into the arms of OM!
It's crucial to realize that's how many if not most women feel in the throes of an A of any sort. And to ME, an EA was NOT the same as a PA. Adultery is condemned in religions; talking to OM is not. Just saying, your rigid application of that "rule" is not universal. And honestly I don't think you even believe it. I think if your w were to admit she slept with OM, you'd hit the roof...

This does not mean you have to tolerate a spouse who has an affair "in front of you"

(Sad, you keep using those words, she cheats "right in front of" as if your w ML in front of you. Why do you say it like that? Did that literally happen to you or punchy? Or, is it more of your inflammatory language?)

I ask that not to attack you, but to point out how the way you word things to justify your anger and to cope with it, only makes it worse.


When I say to "forgive" i do not say to "condone". I do not say "be a doormat". Nor is forgiveness something you need to tell the spouse about, though if they think you are incapable of forgiveness, there's no point in them trying to stay married.
On this thread, you are coming off as rigid, critical and judgemental as heck. I know you are hurt. But you have to ask yourself if you want be "right, or you want to be happy". It's a big question. For a long time, I wanted to be "right" and I "shopped around for others to agree with me that H was being selfish, deceitful, and that I was the victim...that got to be ALMOST more important than saving my m! How? Oh, B/c of my EGO...

I don't believe ANY WAS comes home aand stays, b/c of guilt or shame. Any shame I felt was inside me, and already haunting/guiding me-- but if h had shoved that in my face I would have immediately converted it into anger at HIM, not me. His outrage would have backfired.

The image of my h that I found moving was him with a broken heart crying and the kids crying about me leaving or breaking us up. NOT HIM YELLING AT OR CONFRONTING ME....each situation is different and each spouse's role in an EA or PA, is different.

I'm not saying I was right. But I felt right at the time. By the grace of God I somehow avoided a complete debacle. But if h had tried to punish me, when I felt HE had wronged ME, then I think I would have divorced him.
AND I would have realized that he was incapable of forgiveness so why bother tryiing to work it out? If he had acted that way and held it over my head, forget it. I'd be out of there.
Sad, going on & on about how many ways your w or punchy's w are wrong, is counter productive. It's undermining HIS efforts to move forward and try to restore his marriage.

Punch, you DO need to change your approach and we can work on that but I'm basically writing to you now, to say not to listen to the anger and pride in your heart, or other's...IF you want to restore your m.

And I offer my personal experience as an almost WAW 20 years ago, then as an LBSer 4-5 years ago and someone reunited WITH my h. At one point I gave us a 10% chance of this. Div Busting can and does work. But YOU have to actually do it.

Anyhow, it's getting late and I'm sleepy. Good luck!

[punchy]

Thank you for this insight. What really resonated with me is your comment around do you want to be right, or do what is right for marriage. To address my hurt re finding out about the EA, I would like nothing more than to tell her to end it or move out, tell her family about what she has being do and contact the OM and tell him to stop interfering with my family and our marriage Crisis.

These would all give me much short term pleasure and release, but in the long term I do not think they would not be helpful. She has told me that she had reached out to the OM because I was not there to meet her emotional needs. She is correct about this. I was not there for her.

I think my wife like you is wrestling with what it would be like to sit down with our 3 children and tell them that we are getting a divorce. It is something that I cannot imagine myself doing and that would haunt me for the rest of my life. I truly think that this is where she is at.

I have told her that I am here to support and work through whatever path she wants to take. Being supportive vs issuing the ultimatum is the big question. My personal pride says to issue it amd let whatever fall-out there is to simply unfold. The father and husband in me only wants to do what will be best for my family in the long run.

[punchy]

Sorry, should have said "in the long term I do not think they would be helpful".

[Sad_but_happy]

Thanks 25... You make many good points...

BUT nowhere in your post do YOU take ANY responsibility in the failing of your marriage. It takes TWO people to make it work and TWO people to make it fail.

I understand how one justifies their actions if they are not getting what they want. But as a more logical, less emotional person I also realize how childish and spoiled and selfish that position is.

YES 25, I left my wife emotionally! Why? Because for the first 15 out of our 16 year marriage my W would tell me that I don't make enough money and we don't have enough and always compared me to all her other friends husbands. She was/is rigid and not always fun... She is nicer to her friends then to her husband and children.

Never mind the fact that SHE stayed home with our children for 12 years, and we live in a VERY large home, and we own rental property and a winter home in FL, and have money in the bank and investments. Never mind the fact that she wears designer cloths and has more than 10 Coach purses at over $300 each.

What do you think SHE did to ME emotionally? Can I go out and find the excitement of new love with OW? Can I go out and taste and touch and tease OW? Am I justified because I felt/feel emotionally disconnected?

I tell you this because WE ALL play a role in the demise of a marriage. I should not have left her emotionally and SHE should not have left ME... BUT I AM HERE FIGHTING REGARDLESS!

It is 100% YOUR FAULT for giving yourself to OM just as it is/was my W... YOU had a choice and YOU chose to lie and cheat as did my W (yes an EA IS cheating at least in my eyes). Again, I say this not to blame but to point out that we have choices and we are solely responsible for those choices. ANYONE can justify anything. That does not mean it is justified.

I am not angry though I may sound it. I am a realist and morals are morals! I fully forgive my W and will work hard on my M and do not judge her for her transgressions. BUT all that said, SHE CAN NOT have ANY type of relations with ANY OTHER MEN!!! That's my boundary! That's my dignity! That's my self-respect! And I WOULD NOT respect myself if I let her... And you know what? SHE would not respect me if I let her.

And yes, for ME allowing and EA right in front of me IS THE SAME as watching my W have a PA in front of me. She is giving a piece of herself to another...

PA = Body
EA = Mind

I am not willing to share any of it... Show me even one place in DB/DR where it states that a S should put up with this type of mental abuse...

Punchy... You will need to read your own sitch and act based on what you feel is right. I don't know you nor do I know your wife.

And I pray that your marriage lasts and you find yourself in white shoes retired in FL with your W by your side.

We ALL deserve that! Have a wonderful weekend...

[Sad_but_happy]

Quote:Looking for some advice on how to get the WAW to rethink her living like roommates position. I have been DBing for a year and have worked hard to become a better person, father and husband. Wife has indicated that my DBing only makes her feel guilty

You will be roommates as long as she is having an affair. Another man is getting what you want.


What "Coach" said above... And I agree!

[Sad_but_happy]

And just one final point...

I'm not focusing on who did wrong. I'm simply stating that there is no room for OP in R and it can't be allowed to continue. It's too damaging!

There is NO WAY to move forward if OP is involved...

[Walking]

Great post 25. Spot on.

V

[sandi2]

Do you really think Punchy should not set that boundary or ultimatum if that's what you want to call it?

No-no, that wasn't what I meant at all. I have supported tough love since day one. I have to be careful what I say due to being monitored so closely. MWD does not support the boundary setting and has been very clear about her POV. In fact, the thread that I use to give for examples has been deleted.

So,here's the difference between an ultimatum and/or a boundary(to me). An ultimatum is more like a hard hit of forcing the WAW to chose H or OM, right this minute. It is usually done with extremely high emotions. Ultimatums do not work well on WAW's who are in EA/PA. Most will not choose the LBH b/c she's reacting in a fogged-out emotional brain. Her reaction will be rebelion.

The boundary setting is more about what you cannot live with. This may sound like splitting hairs, but I hope not. This is sort of a template:

Setting a Boundary: When you _____, I feel ______, I want __________ .

Enforcing the Boundary: if you ______ I will __________ .

Back to Punchy, did I miss where your W told you the EA had ended? Because I looked back over the thread and what I saw was you confronting her, but she denied it. Was that the way it was left? If so, then you are going to be in this place for a long time, IMO.

IMHO, the WAW must fear some type of loss by continuing her A, or she will not end it. DR even teaches that. Something needs to emotionally/mentally slap an awareness of what will happen as the consequences of her actions.

I do believe very strongly in CONSEQUENCES! Life teaches us "natural" consequences of bad decisions, right? She needs to know that she will not be able to disrespect her H, dishonor her family, and do an injustic to her children....without consequences.

Some men can get their focus off the WAW and GAL, do remarkable 180's, etc. Some can completly drop the rope. Others find they can't do either of those techniques and decide they will wait out the A. But the way I see this is if you are getting sick(really sick) and cannot live with this in your house, then you need to have a plan of action. Bear in mind, if you act on your plan then you must be ready to accept a not-so-good outcome. Threats do not work.

Confronting the WAW in an EA, usually will not stop her. She may tell you the A has ended, but I don't think I remember ever reading where that was all it took for the W to stop contacting OM. She will, however, go deeper underground or she will try to end the contact....only to resume later. So even if she calls you "controlling"....you really can't control what she does.

Sad-but-happy, I can see a lot of pain in your posts....and rightly so. Speaking from the WAW P