Thanks. I really don't put much trust in anything that she says at this time. I am feeling good that I have outed her relationship with the OM. I am going to sit back and let them stew over this for the next few weeks. In the interim I am going to focus on ensuring that our 3 kids have a great christmas. After the new year, I am going to deal with my WAW about either ending the affair or moving out. For the time being, I have some pleasure in knowing that their secret is exposed and maybe things aren't as cozy as they thought.
for many reasons, I'm not a big fan of snooping or exposing (to 3rd parties). IMO, it usually causes the LBSer unneeded pain and "public" exposure very often backfires, and looks punitive for the LBSers. In short, it isn't effective.
I say "no" to exposure or snooping UNLESS YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY, that you cannot tolerate any more of this and it's a deal breaker. If so, then there's a purpose to the snooping. It's not punishment, it's information you need so you can live your life with a strategy of life with honesty and integrity. You will need to know if she's faithful for you to want to work on the marriage.
IF she's had an affair but was willing to commit to the marriage, you would need to decide if you could move "from this day forward" (& not obsess about the past or details) but if you say you can move forward, then you have to drop the issue and not throw it in her face the rest of her life. Whereas you need to know you can trust her to be faithful, she needs to know you won't hold the sword of Damacles over her head the rest of her life if she's had or admits to having had an affair. It's a big reason WAS's won't admit A's or even try to reconcile b/c they feel the shame of the affair will hang over their head forever.
IF she's wishy washy or you can't tell if she's serious about commiting to the marriage, then snoop away IF you know you'll divorce her for an A.
But what if it's something you'd "allow" her to explore, with the idea that she might find that the grass is NOT greener with OM, (the grass is greener where you water it mostO). So, what then? Is it sort of what you have been doing the past several months? Kind of seems that way to me.
IOW, what's the purpose of snooping to know what she's doing tonight, if your back up plan is backing off and letting her find her way back? Why torture yourself if all you're going to do is take it?
OTOH, after this amount of time and given her comments, it sounds as if you realize that her original reasons for unhappiness had some validity. But either she's closed her heart to your changes or she's just given up and moved onto an unrealistic approach to "marriage".
IF she's closed her heart, all you can do is give that time AND change some of your approach to a more assertive one. (True Change + Enough Time = A Reaction from the WAS...)
If she's just wacky about what a marriage is now, and thinks this roomate situation will work...I'd say you change your approach to a more assertive one for that too. Either way your approach has to change. It's not working, correct?
Do you "know" you'd divorce her if it's physical? If you are sure of that, snoop and file. But if you are not sure what you'd do, and you are open to reconciling, then for now focus on the holidays...
As for Christmas/holidays, consider this. It could be the last one your family has as an intact family. So, make it a good one. That means renting or seeing comedies, celebrating without wincing at each dollar spent, putting thought into the gifts, and being as relaxed and easy to be around as possible. Put a Stop Sign in your mind every time you imagine her with OM or being weird. Just be in the moment. Create some good lasting memories for your kids...and some that may also resurface in your w's mind down the road. When she stops pondering the pain she felt in the past, and looks at the changes you've made about money and life, AND feels the connection of your kids to you, in time, no woman can ignore all that. (I submit that mothers are by nature turned on by the loving interaction of fathers and their children. It's too beautiful to overlook AND it's like a primal survival thing. We love knowing our offspring are safe with their other parent...make sense?)
If you are open to reconciliation down the road then do as my DB coach said which is to "keep the road home paved and smooth"...and if it's too late or you're too angry, then so be it. But recall that forgiveness is for you. It's not about whether someone else "deserves" forgiveness. Forgiveness is about us not being consumed by our anger or pain, and having it SO preoccupy us that we are not being fully present for our children or moving forward in our lives.
I am not clear on where you stand if she is having a physical affair (e.g., if it's an absolute deal breaker that requires filing, or not) Or what if she wants to stay "Sort of" married....do you know what you will do either way? What events or situations seem to ease tensions between you? As for her guilt, no one returns and stays in a marriage for guilt. But a conscience is a different thing. I for one, could not live HAPPILY with a burdened conscience about my hurting my kids. Maybe she's having serious second thoughts. Interesting that she's telling you about her guilt. Why? B/C she has doubts about her choices but won't credit you for changes b/c that might mean her feelings for you would have to change, whereas if it's guilt about the kids, THEN she can stay without having to feel something different?? Just a thought. Keep the changes you've made going. Money issues & tensions, esp around Christmas time is almost unforgivable to many of us. (Seems like a really Grinchy thing to do.)
And make this holiday a very very good one for everyone involved. When your wife looks back on this holiday in 5 years, or 20, make sure you give her NO fuel for the negative images she created that justified her feelings evaporating in the first place. No way. Instead, contrast those negatives with the new you, and give her THAT data to recall down the road...the good times will resurface and she'll have to go way back in time to find the negative data. And since you've changed "for reals", the "mean control freak cheapskate critic" data, won't be real anymore. At the very least she'll know your next R will be with the new improved you and she'll miss out on that. Keep on keeping on.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you for the this response. I truly love my wife and would stay married to her even if she did have an affair as long as she wanted to return. I would forgive her and would be happy in being able to move forward from this current situation.
I have no interest in exposing their relationship to anyone else. My reason for telling her that I knew is that I felt she needed to know that this arrangement was not acceptable to me. Exposing her will not bring her back, but me changing will.
I am concerned that she feels guilty about the OM and that maybe what is preventing her from reinvesting in our marriage. What I don't understand, is whether or not I should just stand by and do nothing and let their relationship unfold, or do I say that it cannot continue under our current living arrangement?
My feeling is that she is comfortable with the existing wacking arrangement. She can't face the impact a divorce would have on the kids. She likes the emotional connection with the OM and doesn't know how to deal with my changes and improvements. She keeps telling me that she doesn't know what she wants.
I would never divorce her because of a PA if she wants to reinvest in our marriage. But I have a hard time just sitting back and letting this EA continue with no impact to her or the OM. I think I am done with the snooping. I have what I needed and that was confirmation that something is going on. She also now knows that I know about it so there is nothing further I need to do on that front. I like your idea of now backing off and letting her find her way back. I do think that I need to take a more assertive approach as the current one really wasn't working. Nothing has changed relationship wise over the past year except that I am a much better person that I was a year ago.
What I don't understand, is whether or not I should just stand by and do nothing and let their relationship unfold, or do I say that it cannot continue under our current living arrangement?
Well, you've taken intervention (exposure) off the table, so you won't be telling OM's wife (if he has one) or your wife's family about the affair.
You've also stated that you are not willing to walk away and are waiting for her to decide what to do while she pursues another man.
So what is it you are going to do? You've taken everything but you just dealing with things off the table.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
This is exactly what I am wrestling with. Post holidays do I continue to let things unfold or do I step things up? I have thought of telling her that she needs to either end the EA or move out of the house. I have also thought of telling her mother who is very supportive of me and knows that her daughter has a number of issues. Because of the kids, I don't really want to walk away, but on the otherhand, I don't like how she is behaving as a mother. At this time she basically goes to work, comes home has a drink, eats supper which I usually make and then sits on the couch for the rest of the night drinking wine.
I am really need to develop a strategy post holidays that will allow to keep going for the next year. I am just not sure what would be the most effective approach. I am open to putting some or all of these back on the table, if they can help the situation.
If you were having an EA, what would you think was the right thing for your wife to do?
If she were making you dinner, and all you did was come home, eat it, then get lost in a bottle of wine dreaming of your EA, what would you think the right thing for her to do would be?
Sit down, take your emotions out of the equation, think about right and wrong.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
Based on what is right or wrong, I need to tell her to end it or move out. I have told her that her EA is wrong but I have not given her the final direction to end it or move out. Post Holidays, I think I need to do this.
The only reason to wait is for the kids. If my wife doesn't want to end the EA, then I don't want to have the fallout ruin their christmas.
I think I understand this, but then again... you weren't having the EA, so it's not you doing it. That would be a consequence of the EA, not your doing.
You may own your portion of the problems in your marriage prior to the affair, but you aren't responsible for the affair or its consequences.
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I am also hoping, but not optimistic that she may come to her senses now that she knows I am aware of what's going on with her and the OM.
Yeah, I'm not optimistic either, and hope is not a plan. I would think that if there are perceived consequences, then why should it stop? I haven't just seen these things stop just because the betrayed spouse knows too often.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
