You bet, we ARE kindred spirits. I knew it from the very beginning! And someday, we are going to meet! It's is a gut feeling I have and I can say that Kitti will be there too! It felt good to get it all off my chest! I cried as I wrote it, but like kitti, I too need to cleanse my soul!
I think most of us that have been on here awhile certainly know we can't demand things from our H until the right time. Then it has to be done with care. T2, I'm in that process you spoke of. I'm getting to that place where I'm getting stronger and not quite so "needy." I'm determined to turn my M around, but I'm tired, and its time to start taking care of Rachael too. I said on my thread that I want and need peace. It's been two yrs of total hell for me. Suicide thoughts, missing work, aniety TOTALLY out of control, panic attacks, my health basically went to hell from all the stress. I've almost got that back thank goodness, but it's been a long uphill climb for every little thing I've gained. I will have to fight anxiety for maybe the rest of my life. Somewhere, somehow, I'm starting to build confidence that I'm going to be ok.(((((WOW)))))) I'm still afraid, but not every single minute of every single day like I was. Being alone does not terrify me like it did. I still don't much care for it, but I guess ya learn to live with it. Point is to DBer's reading this is: THIS IS A PROCESS!!! You will not do everything right no matter how determined you are. It will take you a long time to forgive and you'll never forget it. It will feel hopeless, but it's not. There will be so many ups and downs you'll feel dizzy from it. Set your mind on your goal and keep striving to reach it no matter what happens. We all have to go through it. There's no way around it. This is by far the hardest thing I've ever had to do, and the most painful as well. I see a little light at the end of this LONG tunnel. It drives me to keep going. Some day I believe I'll be where you are T2, because I can see the baby steps we're taking. I also know the power of my determination, and unless he just flat leaves me, (I think he would have done that by now) I have to believe we'll get through this. I've got alot of people on here to thank for thier support. We hold each other up-this is a powerful support network. To those starting the process-you will have to ultimately have to fine what works for you and your M, but LISTEN to the people on this bb. SO many times I didn't and I would probably be alot further along if I had. Still........I'm coming along. Rachael
Ditto, ditto, ditto, what you said T2. I agree with Imalright..this is one HECK of a process. I think I MIGHT see a little light at the end of this tunnel! Rachael
And you know what? That "acting as if" S is coming home or getting closer really makes a hugh difference. Not only with me but also my H. He has picked up on it and has stepped even closer because of it.
One thing I find here is a few forget about Michele's Book~Divorce Remedy. If more people would live by that book, they would be here in piecing. And you can't just read it once. I can't tell you how many times I've read it! It is such an inspiration to me! When I have doubts I pick it up and then come here to get support!
I wish there was a way to get to others out there, that are lost. Thinking like I did in the beginning; that there is no hope and to listen to well-meaning friends whom I quote by saying, "Get a D and move on" Boy were they wrong. And they darn near drove me to insanity!
If I had money and time, I'd go out and give people "the book" that really needed it! I has made me a better person, and I have a very good chance of saving my M on top of it!
TG I found this site and that book! 2004 looks very good to me!
Quote: They say that IF we survive these nightmares that our Ms can come out stronger and more loving, and I actually DO believe that that's possible. And so to ME, THIS TIME, there is NO room for passive-aggressiveness. If he or I need something then we MUST articulate it because we have already proven to ourselves and each other that we CANNOT read each other's minds.
And as for THEM changing..the answer is hell yes. They can change and they DO change...but they have to CHOOSE to change
AMEN sister!!
That's been one of my fears...sliding into the old passive aggressive ways...thanks for putting into words how I feel and what I need to be doing!!
I love the strength and determination that's going on here! The book is AWESOME-No doubt about it. It changes the way you look at your M. It gives us hope when we have NONE! Rachael
Quote: He's NEVER going to want to pick out furniture with me or go to the opera BUT he is not a cave man or a stupid man either...and OBVIOUSLY HE HAS AND UNDERSTANDS FEELINGS...cause it was "HIS FEELINGS and EMOTIONAL NEEDS" not being met that 'drove him to cheat'..
Your H told you that OW's meant nothing to him, so your sitch is different than mine. My H has feelings for OW because I kicked H out, H went to the arms of OW. She doesn't care what my H is like OW will take H anyway she can and my H is a wimp. H won't pull himself out of that mess, because it's easier to blame me and make it my fault. It's easier to be mean to me and stay away from ME. I did not meet my H's emotional needs. He has given me different years of his unhappiness, but the number that stick the most is the last "3 years" which is from when our son was born till he was three. Yes I neglected my H, but my H neglected my needs, my feelings, too. I didnt' find somebody else either. Why is it so hard for H to see that I was raising a child, a little needy child. From the day that baby came home my H was threatened, couldn't understand that S needed me. Right after our S was born H got so drunk, drove home, his friend called here after H got home to let H know that he had backed into someone else's vehicle. H was drunk he passed out and fell on the floor in our kitchen. Called our baby a name that I will not repeat.
Quote: I'm NOT suffering in silence here any longer and allowing resentment and justifications for my own potential to do wrong to build up. I'm putting my cards on the table and DEMANDING that he do the same.
This cannot happen till WA comes back though, right?
Quote: I acknowledge and accept ALL my shortcomings in the way I acted in our M prior to the 'bomb'....I have worked hard on myself to rectify those shortcomings and I am doing a fabulous job. I'm becoming a better person all around because of the changes I've CHOSEN to make in and for myself.
I have too, but H isn't here. I know what my shortcomings were. H told me the other night that I wasn't happy because of HIM. I said no, I wasn't happy because of ME. I know my H is unhappy with ME, but he brought up his second wife the other night, also. Said since his M to #2, since their break-up I should say, he hasn't trusted anybody..H said you know that, you know how I am. When H was with Wife #2 he quit drinking, quit hunting, did everything he could to make her happy and she still wasn't happy, moved away while H was at work. Of all the people he's been with, I was the one who didn't LEAVE him.
Quote: No ONE'S more important to you in this world than YOU are. If we're NOT happy with ourselves no one else can be. I chose to remain with my H. I chose to fight to save our M. I chose to forgive him his failure to keep our vows when he was weak and in pain. I choose to look to the future with him at my side....but I no longer close my eyes or my ears to any nuances of self destructive behavior patterns on his part. He will have to be a better version of the man I married or he will not be the man I remain married to.
I choose to look to the future with H by my side, but H isn't by my side. I don't know if H can be by my side. He's choosing not to right now. I do know that H will have to be a better version of the man I married, but right now H IS the man I married. Why do I want him back the way he is? Wouldn't I be tricking him back here?
T2 you're doing a great job, by your circumstances are different than mine, you're a different person than I am. Your H asked to come back, mine has not. Mine hides out at our house from OW. Mine comes here as his retreat place. Maybe becuase it's normal here, maybe he can relax a little. I don't know. I do know that mosts of the time when he leaves he's uncommunicative and I do know that he's sick of the back and forth sick of the sneaking around..as he put it.
Oh I'm rambling now, I guess I'm trying to make some sense ouf this whole mess. I guess I just don't like being blamed for everything wrong in his life, because I've only been around 11 years. I won't take the blame anymore. It's not my fault that H isn't happy, H has to find H's own happiness where ever that maybe, god help him.
Left, It would seem your H has somewhat of a self destructive personality. I don't know him, but he seems bent on not allowing himself to be happy. He's afraid you'll leave him, but he's almost forcing your hand to see if you will. He does not even try to keep the fact that he is seeing OW a secret, thus trying to push you away. Sounds like wifey #2 hurt him, but who knows that he didn't do the same thing to her emotioanlly? Anyway, it sounds like his baggage goes alot farther back than Wife #2. This is just IMHO, but who am I to judge? My H is not home either, but claims A is over. OW was a friend for a long time too, and I think that makes it even worse. They seem to think they can end the A and still stay friends. I let my H know that under NO circumstances could there be any contact with her if he wanted a life with me. He agreed it had to be that way, and that he had no problem giving her the boot, but that could be all talk, who knows? Sorry, but I'm still having a hard time getting past what your H did when your S was born. That had to be extemely painful and disappointing. How is he with our S now? How long have you been separated? You are a very strong lady and I really hope things will get better with your H. I think we all begin to wonder why we put up with what we do. Good question huh? Rachael
We have been separated 8 months. H is great with our S, he is a good father, always has been. He has another S who is 20, I've been with H since SS was 8. I've also been witness to some ugliness between H and SS when he was smaller. It's usually when H has been drinking, he changes..he can get ugly. I fear for our S if H doesn't get some help with his problems.
In my mind I'm dealing with more than just OW, H has a lot of problems. Of course, I've been ignoring/hiding from H's problems myself for years. Acting as if H didn't have a problem, just so I could stay with H. Deep down I really love that man, but with all of the problems, etc. I am beginning to wonder why I do want him back. I've been through hell myself with H, but it is MY own fault.
I just let my H walk over me, lost my self-esteem, wouldn't stand up to H. H can also be verball abusive and controlling.
I am in one heck of a mess here. I've been dbing my butt off for 8 months. It's finally sinking in that H has problems that H needs to address, I cannot help.
H is living with the OW, why is he afraid I'll leave HIM!? He's gone already, he shouldn't be afraid of anything. H is living with OW, I would have every right in the world to divorce H. Nobody would fault me, nobody. H wants me to D him, wants me to do the work, but I want him to do the work. This is his decision not mine, therfore I'm not doing anything. H has avoided his whole life. We got married becuase I was pregnant, H asked me to marry him once he found out. My gut said let's wait till after the baby is born, but I agreed to get marreid before the baby was born. The Monday after our wedding I lost the baby--it was awful, I won't go into details but some decisions had to made and we made the decision we thought was best. About eight months after that I became pregnant again, we lost that baby, we terminated the pregnancy for genetic reasons. H and I have been through a lot, more than most couples, that I know anyway. And now this.
I want H to come back because H wants to be with me, to work on our marriage. I'm not forcing H to make any decisions, I'm not D's him, H will have to decide. H will also have to address his problems, H will have to decide if he wants to grow up or to keep going on like he is until eventually he kills himself drinking or somebody else.
There is hope, he did take the literature I printed on our high blood pressure, H's is high. Doesn't care, oh maybe he does, but not for long. For a Santa gift I bought him a blood pressure monitor since he won't see a doctor like H should. I am also going to check into Al-Anon if this stuff runs in family's than I need to know what to expect, how to not let this affect my life or my S's.
H IS AT OW'S TO HIDE FROM HIMSELF, FROM HIS MESS, FROM REALITY.
Back on 12-5-03 I started this new thread with the following statement: Beginning today I am a NEW me. I am not going to link my old threads to this one because I am CHOOSING to leave the past...in the past.
Well, apparently NOT QUITE.
Good Morning sister/fellow DBers,
Although hesitant to do so I'm going to post my sorid lapse into the muck and mire of the painful past. Fortunately it was a brief trek into the abyss and I've pulled myself out...but, it was a struggle.
I'm sharing this mainly because EVEN when we THINK we're almost 'home free'....something INCLUDING outside forces unbeknownst to us....can grab us and pull us back in to the pain.
Bear with me, this ain't pretty:
I was sitting at the puter Friday around noon, having a great chat with our friend Cathy (leftandknowwhy), when the doorbell rings....it was the UPS man.
A package arrived addressed to my H (using his 'nick' name and last name and was sent from L. L. Bean the only 'clue' as to the sender on the box were the words, "Billed to third party." WELL, needless to say, I was curious. So, I opened the box and there inside was a cheezy gift of a three sample jam jars and a note from a relative of Hs that was intended ONLY for him, wishing him a Happy Holidays blah blah blah. NO MENTION OF ME OR OUR SONS.
Well, you're probably thinking...so what!
Well, the "so what" is, that THIS same relative is the dear girl that my H took his whore to visit for two days right after Xmass of 2001. (back when I was suspecting an A and of course being told by my H that I was NUTS.) Anyway, this same woman waited SIX months (til June 2002), and on my sons 21st Bday sent an envelope addressed to Mr. & Mrs. (H and I)which of course I opened....INSIDE were two notes AND two pictures. The one picture was of my H and her kids AT CHRISTMAS and the second picture was one of MY H and HIS whore sitting on HER couch with a note TO HER saying how much she'd enjoyed meeting her and hoped she and her DD were doing well blah blah blah...WELL needless to say, this is the day that rocked my world. The truth was finally known and the photo was my ticket to reality AND this NIGHTMARE. That day, while my H was at work, I packed all his stuff and put it out for him to come and pick up. Then I sent him an e-mail with the scanned photo in it telling him that his ass was OUT OF HERE. And that's the day this hell really started.
Of course, I didn't know at that time that my H stopped his R with that whore as soon as they returned from that little weekend jaunt...but that didn't matter.
Anyway...as you all know the ups and downs of this reconciliation maddness and the tentiveness of it...my H and I have been scratching our way along trying to bring our R back to center. The past several weeks I've been doing great. I've been at peace and happier with my life than I'd been in several years...all was going along pretty well....THEN BOOM...along comes the UPS guy.
Well, that package may as well of had a bomb in it because when I saw that note to him and him alone, I exploded.
The following is the e-mail I sent my H that day...(YES, despite Cathy's sound advice NOT TO):
Okay, I'm trying very very hard not to be insane here....A package came from UPS, it was for you...it's a gift from Laura... I am trying VERY HARD not to be angry at you. But that ignorant b*tch has the nerve to entertain your wh*re in her house two Christmases ago and now sends a gift (solely to YOU with no mention of me or MY SONS), to MY HOUSE. YOUR past behavior has put me in a position to be discounted. YOU rendered me a laughing stock. You have given that hateful b*tch the RIGHT to send pictures of your wh*re to MY HOME and gifts to you that say....I AM NOTHING.
I am so shaken by this and the memory of this nightmare I can hardly breath.
WHEN, if ever do YOU stand up for me? WHEN do you tell all the people that YOU allowed to KNOW that you had rendered ME MEANINGLESS (with your past actions) that I do have meaning and that YOU were WRONG, or do I NEVER get that?
The LEAST you can do, the NEXT time you're chatting it up with her or sending her money or gifts TELL HER NOT to send a g*d d*mn thing to MY house to keep your 'special' relationship to the two of you and leave my HEART and MY life out of it.
And that goes for all your 'secret' friends that you felt 'safe' sharing your 'other' life with.
End of TIRADE. Well, that little trip down ugly lane kept me in the dumps for the entire weekend. I could barely speak to my H, let alone look at him. And he was the same around me. We tiptoed around each other, being civil but distant, all weekend.
I had some great dialog with KK, Deb, Opt, Pam and Cathy over this mess and they helped me to sort through it. The truth is, that THIS incident was a reminder to me that it's NOT just my H and I that can mess up our attempt to reconcile but all those 'other' people that have their own agenda for our R as well.
I'm better today, my H and I had coffee together this morning and both of us were obviously more relaxed and more hopeful that 'this to shall pass'...but these little forays into hell are what rip and tear at our attempts to survive this hell....to many of them and we will see our reconciliation slip through the cracks all because we didn't see another shoe dropping. T2
