Where are you? I have some questions for you. Your H came back, did you DB him back? It seems to me you're pretty strong and it doesn't seem like you had to be nicey, nice for your H to decide to move back home. That you had to "act as if" all the time. Or did you?
Just curious, guess I should look for your older threads.
As you well know by now..."nicey nice" is NOT my style. Yes I did DB...like halting R talks, doing affirmations (when deserved) started treating H more like a 'friend' than a H.
Now to clarify something, when I said I "halted R talks" that doesn't mean to say that I went mum. Not at all. What I did do however was pick my 'battles' wisely. I sorted out pain from reality and once I'd given myself a good talking to, IF I had a 'burning question' I asked it. I wasn't confrontational I was straight forward and made the question ME related. Ex. "H, I was a bit down today because I started thinking about the time you said that you and OW never went anywhere in public so that no one would ever see you with someone else. If that's true, then where did you go? I feel I need to know so that I won't be paranoid about the places we go together." And he would answer. Sometimes with full on honesty, other times with 1/2 truths depending on how foolish or ashamed the TRUTH would make him feel.
I also don't allow ANYTHING that 'triggers' me to slide anymore. If he says or does anything that causes my heart or stomach to cramp (you know what I mean) I straight out say something about it, THEN and THERE.
I have also told my H EXACTLY what I need and want from him in order to be assured that I am 'safe.' He has done at least 80% of those things already...AND he knows that he will either do the other 20% in a reasonable amount of time OR I WILL give him his walking papers and deal with the transition into singlehood.
I love my H...I'm happy that he's home, I'm happy with the way I feel these past few weeks and I'm satisfied with the way our R is going at this time....but, I am also strong enough NOW to know that if HE can't/won't do a few things that I've asked, then I will walk come spring...loving him as I let him go for good. T2
Okay, maybe I asked the question wrong. I find myself trying/wanting to be nice to my H. And understanding and considerate and affirming. But sometimes I do get mad, say things to him about the way I see things, not in a bad way. Just state them and say these are my feelings and I can't help it.
Even though I'm not supposed to be talking R, talking about OW and his R, but they are my feelings and I should be able to share them.
The way that H is acting towards me now and treating me is pretty much the way he's been treating me for the last five years. He admitted that he was mean to his first two wive's and admitted that he was mean to me too, just last week. So he is mean and has been mean. H knows how he his, so it's hard to be nice to H sometimes. Hard to not get mad. Every sitch is different, but really if he was a freind of mine, I don't think we'd be friends for long.
Or maybe we would, except we'd have long periods of time of not seeing talking to each other.
T2 I like your style and I think some of my style is like yours. The other thing is I don't like wimpy men, or nicey/nice men either. I like a man's man and that type of man is my H. But I think he could soften just a little and he'd still be able to hold that man's man style.
Quote: I have also told my H EXACTLY what I need and want from him in order to be assured that I am 'safe.' He has done at least 80% of those things already...AND he knows that he will either do the other 20% in a reasonable amount of time OR I WILL give him his walking papers and deal with the transition into singlehood.
I love my H...I'm happy that he's home, I'm happy with the way I feel these past few weeks and I'm satisfied with the way our R is going at this time....but, I am also strong enough NOW to know that if HE can't/won't do a few things that I've asked, then I will walk come spring...loving him as I let him go for good. T2
Wow, your husband has responded positively to 80% of the things you have requested, but you will walk in the spring if he doesn't go the last 20%? You have very high expectations, don't you? Or have I misunderstood something here? I realize you are referring to aspects of his behaviour that make you feel safe, regarding his A and walking, presumably? Do you have a general list for improvements over the 'old' marriage?
I am just wondering, does your H have a 'want list' for changes from you too? If so, how much have you responded?
The last seven months post bomb, I have moved from thinking that most or all the fault and blame for any problems in our marriage was H's, to realising that I too have been blind or deaf to some of his points, that I may be too controlling in certain areas, too perfectionist. No one can affect a complete character makeover even to please their spouse. They can try, but the effort will exhaust them!
I met H for a quick coffee and chat the other day. He was smoking a fat cigar, taken up since bomb dropped. I really do detest smoking, and the image of my H smoking a cigar was repellent and almost made me laugh. But I also felt great love for him, and realized that his smoking or not smoking isn't, or shouldn't be, the factor in whether I love him still or not. I certainly wouldn't have flushed my marriage down the toilet over the issue of smoking.
Season's greeting all, and please do drop by my thread if you can!
Livnlearn (Newbie piecer needs advice and encouragement)
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: I don't like wimpy men, or nicey/nice men either. I like a man's man and that type of man is my H. But I think he could soften just a little and he'd still be able to hold that man's man style.
My H is a 'mans man' as well, so finding his 'feminine' side is out of the question. He's NEVER going to want to pick out furniture with me or go to the opera BUT he is not a cave man or a stupid man either...and OBVIOUSLY HE HAS AND UNDERSTANDS FEELINGS...cause it was "HIS FEELINGS and EMOTIONAL NEEDS" not being met that 'drove him to cheat'....SOooooo, needless to say, I refuse to give him a 'pass' on not having an understanding of what MY NEEDS ARE. I am NOT letting my H off the hook for not meeting MY needs anymore than he let me off the hook for failing to meet his. THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS, I'm not hiding my needs from him as he did me. I'm NOT suffering in silence here any longer and allowing resentment and justifications for my own potential to do wrong to build up. I'm putting my cards on the table and DEMANDING that he do the same.
They say that IF we survive these nightmares that our Ms can come out stronger and more loving, and I actually DO believe that that's possible. And so to ME, THIS TIME, there is NO room for passive-aggressiveness. If he or I need something then we MUST articulate it because we have already proven to ourselves and each other that we CANNOT read each other's minds.
And as for THEM changing..the answer is hell yes. They can change and they DO change...but they have to CHOOSE to change.
Early on in this mess, my H would state how he wasn't about to change, that he is who he is blah blah blah .... well, he's certainly made several changes now, hasn't he. That 'tone' is gone for the most part. He's softening up, becoming more affectionate, intimate, thoughtful.
He DOES realize that he can play 'hard ass' but if he chooses to play 'hard ass' he WILL be playing that act for some floozy like his OW...because THIS woman will NOT accept that behavior...I deserve and I demand better NOW.
I acknowledge and accept ALL my shortcomings in the way I acted in our M prior to the 'bomb'....I have worked hard on myself to rectify those shortcomings and I am doing a fabulous job. I'm becoming a better person all around because of the changes I've CHOSEN to make in and for myself.
NOW it's his turn to do the same.
The absolute beauty of regaining your self esteem and strength is that it affords you the ability to step back and ask yourself...IS HE STILL GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME....when you get to this point, you become secure enough in yourself again to set your boundaries and decide that if HE is unable/unwilling to live by those boundaries, then YOU can choose to walk away and take from life what YOU need.
No ONE'S more important to you in this world than YOU are. If we're NOT happy with ourselves no one else can be. I chose to remain with my H. I chose to fight to save our M. I chose to forgive him his failure to keep our vows when he was weak and in pain. I choose to look to the future with him at my side....but I no longer close my eyes or my ears to any nuances of self destructive behavior patterns on his part. He will have to be a better version of the man I married or he will not be the man I remain married to. T2
Your post brought a lot of things to my mind. people say that OW is so polite, quiet and nice! BUll. Then that is says my H did the pursuing. Which could be partially right, he made at least 6-12 phone calls to her daily. But, I thought that was considered; obsession. Well my H is not nor was he ever a pursuer. So I think miss goodie two shoes only shows her sweet side to his friends.
My H liked picking out furniture, grocery shopping, ect. I loved it as it shows he was interested in being apart of things. My H has a little of both sides. But we both like to avoid fights or confrontations. Hello this was one of our problems.
I think you have to be at a certain stage before starting to tell them your mind. But hey whatever works for each person's sitch.
I keep telling myself, patience! Because, darn I'm sick of waiting for H to bring up R talk. people if I wait for H to bring it up, it will be a cold day in hell.
Caly, told me that since I was the WAS and I kicked H out and filed for a D. I need to tell him if I have changed my mind. I did tell him I didn't want a D. But how does he know what I'm really saying. Since I also said, "let's leave things as they are". So you see, when the time is right I REALLY DO have to tell him, I want to save our M.
Quote: think you have to be at a certain stage before starting to tell them your mind.
You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I didn't become this bold the day after the bomb. Hell, I spent over a year acting like a complete and total basket case...doing all the wrong things.
But as YOU said, Patience is everything.
It takes us A LOT of time to heal, A LOT of time to get our feet back under us. A LOT of time to pick our self esteem up off the floor, dust it off and pull OURSELVES back together.
MY current strength comes from the months and months of tearing myself down and then slowly finding the strength to build myself back up.
I went the full gamet in this journey. From thoughts of suicide over my 'worthlessness' to thoughts of "hey, I need to D this ahole" to where I am today. Back to a relatively well balanced me and a better ME at that.
It's been a long, painful, difficult journey to get here. And as crazy as it sounds, I'm beginning to feel that the pain was the 'lesson' I had to learn. T2
Yep, it's a long journey! Not an easy one. And I've been suicidal a few times also.
Infact, In December 2002, I was so upset knowing something was wrong and my H was acting like I didn't exist that one night when we were in our bedroom. I blew my stack, he just sat there in bed looking like he didn't care about me. Here I was pouring my heart out, and the @$$hole just sat there, like so what. I did a terrible thing; I reached down and grabbed his .45 (loaded) and cocked it, threatened to pull the trigger and end it all in front of him. Still he sat there, no emotions showed! I don't know what was said, because I lost it and would have probably shot myself. I had temporarily lost it! But, he finally talked me into giving him the gun and coming to bed. I sobbed and said I thought he was going to leave me. And you know what he said? "Deb, I will never leave you, I will always love you!"
Wish I would have had that DR book a year ago. I made so many mistakes then. Did all the wrong things and ended pushing him farther away. Even after I found out about the A, he said it was hard to choose between the 2 of us! But that he didn't want a D. We talked about spending more time together and trying to make it work.
A few days later, he totally distanced himself from me, wouldn't sleep with me even. Would not hardly talk to me. Then 2 wks after the bomb, I went up stairs and seduced him, knowing that he didn't want to have sex, it was the last time we did. I felt like a cheap whore, even though he was holding me and rubbing my back. I knew it was over. Because he told me that night he loved her more, would rather be with her and only felt obligated to take care of me!
It was like someone talked him into that, because at first he was willing to work on it and that first weekend I had the best sex ever! So, what made him change his mind? He was so cold that last night!
2 days later I filed, told him he had to find a new place to live. The original plan was he stay until Spring and keep seing OW. I couldn't do it, it was killing me to see him go and come home from there. I degraded him by telling him he had to take a shower after he was with her. He did that once and then didn't shower again.
So I know the journey is not an easy one! Been through a lot of pain. We all have.
But I figured that it took you a while and a certain stage to get to the point of telling your H your needs. I just wanting you to make that clear to others here. Timing is very important. If you tell your S those things at the wrong time it will come back to nip you in the butt!
Thanks T2, you are someone to look up to! (((((hugs)))))
You are very special to me, as I don't know how I would have hung in here this long without you supported me! And helping me see the trees! LOL
