Need Insight II

[InAPickle]

Faith, I don't think she can recognize bounderies.
It's that far gone.
She's like talking to my brother when he's off his meds.
He's bipolar and schizophrenic.
Like talking to a crazy person - trust me.
I don't accept her going to see OM, I think she knows that.
That's why the, "I don't trust you."
I asked flat out are you going up there for sex.
She just kept saying don't know over and over.
I just said I wont throw her stuff in the driveway.
And what would that accomplish? Only furthering my bad guy image.
My goal is to re-connect and supplant OM.
I can't do that by being the evil genius.
This is going to take time.
If it doesn't work out, so be it.

[angel61]

I indeed proud of you, Pickle! That is a big step in losing that anger. Its good that you told her about not hating her, takes away one of her weapons against you.

I will not push you about the boundaries because I hve to admit that is my weakness too.

I on the other hand had a huge setback today. I will post in my thread. This time it will be your turn to advise me.

My thinking is clouded today, but what I see in you W is confusion, which can be good, as she is on the fence somehow, but is more in OMs side at this point. You have a lot of work to pull her in.

But caution: sometimes, when W is happy, that is because OM said or did something to make her happy. I have learned that with my H. He used to treat me better when he still had OW.

I think using the "being the good guy" guidelines is the best, remember that inj the end, if all goes wrong, you have to protect yourself and the kids.

[FaithnAK]

Faith, I don't think she can recognize bounderies.

This boundary isn't for her. This boundary is for you.

Think about it this way, if she goes to see OM like she wants "permission" to do, and she's gone for a week. The whole time she's gone, you are going to be worried about what she's doing. THE WHOLE TIME she is gone, how do you think your going to react knowing your Wife is with another man? If you think you have trouble now...how are you going to feel when she comes HOME from being with OM and now you have to look at her?

How do you think she's going to view you, knowing you let her go be with an OM?

Are you okay walking this path, if say 2 months down the road she picks him over you?

You've heard the term act "As if", but based on the questions above, "What if" needs to be in your vocabulary.

There are a lot of people on this board that in hindsight wished they could have taken a more firm(Self Respect) stance to save their marriages, but to have saved themselves sooner too.

She's like talking to my brother when he's off his meds.
He's bipolar and schizophrenic.
Like talking to a crazy person - trust me.

Man, you have NO idea how much I understand what you are saying. My Wife is NUTS, she's like a twig that could snap in a strong breeze...her Job is in danger now...she's suspended on medical leave until she seeks help. (Just found this out today)

How do you handle your Brother when he's off his meds? Do you keep him away from you, until he gets back on them? Or do you just let him act crazy, hurt himself, and you until he figures it out?

I don't accept her going to see OM, I think she knows that.
That's why the, "I don't trust you."
I asked flat out are you going up there for sex.
She just kept saying don't know over and over.

Why ask this? What would you do if she said yes? "Okay Honey, have a good time. We'll talk about our M when you come home."

Now, here is another problem, so she couldn't even tell you Yes or No? IAP, I know you want to save your M and reconnect, but you can't allow this to happen IN FRONT OF YOU. That is NOT a healthy stance and will HURT YOU in the long run.

It's okay to stand up for yourself. It really is. You can still work on reconnecting, but not if she goes to OM. It's just not going to work. It's best to TRY and stop this BEFORE a PA happens, otherwise the difficulty level will skyrocket.

I just said I wont throw her stuff in the driveway.
And what would that accomplish? Only furthering my bad guy image.

Do not throw her stuff out in the driveway and she even expressed a concern about the exposure part. Validate her, "ok I will NOT do this, but if you go to see him I can't be in the same home with you knowing you did this and respect myself knowing I allowed you to take advantage of me being kind to you" (That better?)

[angel61]

Our spouses are all crazy - that is why we are all here, supporting each other.
one suggestion: do not give assurances to your W. She will read into it and hold you to it even if you don't feel like it anymore.

I think you should tell her you know she knows she is a big girl, and that she can decide what she wants to do, whatever she wants, and will have to stand up to the consequences of her own actions. Maybe you don't even have to explain what those are_ self explanatory, right? if she knows you well.

I am thinking back to my own sitch, I don't think I ever gave boundaries but I never said I was OK with what he did either. I just told him that I trusted him to know what is best for our family. My only assurance: I told him that I cannot be angry, only hurt, and that my actions will not stem from anger but from being hurt. And that I will work for saving the M as much as I could.
In the end, even if he threatened to leave, and even if he said he was going to see OW on her own, he did not really. The one time he visited her her parents were with her so nothing happened. The next time was when we were all together in a convention, and at the end of the day he even asked me to join them which I did, and which turned out to be the turning point, making OW realize that I was a nice person, we had a good marriage in the past (maybe contrary to what she heard from him) and she got guilty and backed off.
I also saw him getting really close to D11, and could almost see him thinking about how it would be like to leave us, especially her.
And oh, another thing I said , was that if we separated, I would want us never to see each other again. he said initially I was being mean, but later he told me he understood why, and that was because I did not want to feel the pain of seeing him again. I was protecting myself.And I meant those words.

[InAPickle]

Alright enough about bounderies.
I'm quite happy in my own skin, and I don't need to hear anymore advice that is not solution oriented. I have my self respect and I never made any assurances about exposure. She's still scared to death of that and doesn't "trust" me to "behave" while she's away. But that only puts me on a tightrope toward my ultimate goals. And the goals are paramount.

I'm trying to win back this crazy person, get her to come to her senses, get her to look at me with fresh attraction, get her to remember the good things about our 18 years, get to see the value of the marriage, get her to no longer feel "trapped" in it, get her to see OM for the predator he is (married 10 yrs w/S6). Maybe she needs to actually "see" him in person as opposed to a perpetual long distance intreague, which is nothing but letters and promises, but filled with tittalating intreague.

Whatever happens, God can and does bring good from even the most heinoous of evils. I think the other night I made an impression diffusing the pissed off bad guy. Please, if the advice I get here hinders the goal, I'm afraid I'll have to ignore it.

[FaithnAK]

Alright enough about bounderies.
I'm quite happy in my own skin, and I don't need to hear anymore advice that is not solution oriented. I have my self respect and I never made any assurances about exposure.

Fair enough. You do it how YOU want to. You have to look at yourself in the mirror each day and know that YOU tried everything.

As far as the bold comment goes, it's not fair to assume that any advice isn't solution oriented until you try it. How do you know it wouldn't work?

Now if you just don't want to go that route yet, that's understandable. Just try to understand that EVERYONE posting to you is just trying to help. It's your choice to take the advice and apply it, manipulate it, or just throw it out.

I HOPE your Wife doesn't go to see the OM. I really mean this. Whatever solution oriented goals you have, I believe this being stopped is the highest priority. I hope you find the best way. Take care friend.

[InAPickle]

All her actions and words point toward one theme: her choices are justified because I am a bad guy. I know her; we've been together almost twenty years. she is not a serial trollop. She cannot destroy a home, scar her children for life, trash her solemn vows and embrace infidelity without justifying her choices.

I have got to somehow lift the blame from my side of the issue. I cannot do that by being the dispassionate father figure. Even if I am totally calm and resolved, in her eyes I am still a mean person for forcing her hand to quickly get legal protection and D with specific "bounderies".

I told her I was in no hurry to get a D. I have to first win her trust. She admitted to having an appointment with a lawyer scheduled this week, which I asked her to postpone. She suggested to save money we should both use one lawyer, to which I responded we should both choose the lawyer then, not just her. She seemed Friday night to be amenable to postponement, but we'll see if she heeds my request. If she doesn't, I'll go from there. If she does, maybe she'll trust me a tiny little bit.

[ericmsant2]

InaPickle

I have to first win her trust

And this ^^^^ could take a very loooong time. Whatever you do, in your attempt to regain her trust, try not to accept things that you may regret later.

God Bless,
Eric

[InAPickle]

If and when she makes a choice, that does not automatically mean that I accept anything. Why do people assume that if I do not throw her out on her ear that I "accept" her infidility?

I cannot forcibly stop her from doing this or that. She knows I don't "accept" her choices. I have already tried the threats and that only made matters worse. My number one concern right now is my children and I will do what I think is best for them. They don't need to see their mother crawling around in the driveway picking up all her crap bacause of mean ol dad.

[angel61]

PIckle, by coincidence I was just speaking to an old frined of me and H before I opened up the forum. She also is separated from her H, after years of suffering. her words for me though:
"I know your H, he is a responsible, caring and kind person. His pain now is because he cannot reconcile what he wants with what his nature is. He is hurting you because he wants it to come from you, because he needs to justify it, cannot be the one to turn his back on the family."
So it goes without saying that one day, when his feeling of being trapped, his MLC or whatever, and his feelings for OW subside, he will come back to what he was before.

As even my D11 says , "it will pass". Statistics show that most A's last only for 6 mos. My H's EA was exactly 6 mos - started late May, ended (I hope it holds) Nov. 26.

I think for you and me, we will just have to trust that we know our spouses best and that we are banking on their inner goodness to pull them through this crisis. Again, if it fails, at least it was not because of our actions.

Again, the end of an A does not mean all is well. Right now I am battling the strongest "I want to give up" feeling in my life - after the crisis, I feel so exhausted, I feel like the fight has gine from me. But more than ever, my friends are rallying behind me to keep it.

Hang in there! I hope to see your sitch progressing to beyond the A. Maybe you just have to give it the freedom to happen. As they say, if you love someone, let it go......

Just like you, I had lots of people telling me to set boundaries, ultimatums, etc. butI never did.

I do believe though that it was prayer that turned things around ultimately.