Well, clearly that didn't work out too well for the two of you.
I guess I would still say that respect is respect. The house belongs to the TWO of you, not to outside parties. I cannot think of a situation that would make me feel ok about coming home, even for only 2 days in every 2 weeks, and finding another man's belongings in the home I am helping to pay for.
I do get the controlling aspect of this issue. But the counterbalance to not wanting to appear like it's "your way or the highway" is that her allowing this to happen is incredibly disrespectful to you, whether she considers you still married or not.
If a friend borrowed my car, knowing that I don't allow cigarette smoke, then smoked a pack or two in it while using it, that would be disrespectful and we would have to settle the issue.
Perhaps a bad analogy, but you have to find a way to stand up for yourself and at the same time not feed her impression of you as a controller.
And it might not be a bad idea to renege on the swinging idea should the topic arise.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
You have a very complex situation but your description the following is key to me:
"My wife complained that I saw her as a possession and nothing she ever did for me was good enough. I have come to terms that I was verbally abusive to my W even though I never had any intention of ever hurting her. I had rage problems and working on anger issues is something that I believe I will be doing for the rest of my life but I have made huge strides. I have gone to therapy because I was thretening suicide to get my W to talk to me and I am on anti-depressants. I’ve worked on a lot of things but now W doesn’t want to talk to me or be around me and doesn’t believe I’ve changed. She is dating somebody else and that is a real test of my anger management along with the divorce papers I got yesterday and the fact that she wiped our computer clean so I couldn’t get at any old photos or videos.
I have slipped up and done some subtle blaming (which she called me on) and I try to take solace in the fact that I am not denying it anymore. When I do not blame, when I ignore something that would make me angry, or when I simply validate her feelings without arguing it seems to make her even angrier at me. Can any of the WAW’s give me some clarity on this phenomenon?
also
She has complained that everything always had to be my way and nothing she ever did was good enough.
You are asking about texts regarding whether you should sell the house and bypassing the problem.
I agree with Bill that her behavior is less than poor, but also that you are just skipping over her real complaints.
Getting at a SOLUTION: I want to know what YOUR ideas are about how you could reconcile this situation. YOU are the one with intimate knowledge. So what would be your wild guess? What do you really want to try?
From a completely sexual standpoint the swinging was great but the damage it caused is not worth it. If I get my wife back I wouldn’t ever bring up swinging again. If she did, I would have to feel completely secure in our marriage (which was my illusion when we started) and I’m not sure then that I would be okay with it. She didn’t like how insecure I got when she was swinging alone and started snooping and we talked about it, she said it made her feel worthless because she wasn’t special to me anymore. She told me that I wanted anybody but her while I had always been enough for her in every way. Very tough to hear and not get overly defensive about.
Yeah, in texts she has brought up selling the house. Financially it doesn’t make sense to me because we were lucky to find this house in our price range and I don’t think either of us could get another one for a long, long time. I am furious inside about finding this guys stuff in the house but part of my anger management is not to let it out…so even saying it here is fudging a bit on that. I didn’t notice the signs earlier when she started dressing better and putting on perfume more often. I am at a loss; I can live out of my truck because it is set up for long-haul driving. Basically, it is like I have moved out right now. If she was to move out and the animals aren’t there I could probably still pay for the house b/c the mortgage is low and the utilities would be almost nil with how often I would be there.
I think what you guys are trying to get at about the real complaints is: I’ve done a lot of things wrong in all of this but do still feel she contributed by always trying to pacify me. I haven’t actually let go and forgiven her for what happened in the past. I feel that the situation is unfair but I wanted to avoid the hard-line approach. I just re-read the MLC section and I think I was going through it a bit but now she is. She’s said that she wants to start over and have a new life; she’d give up everything she has including the house, car, and animals and that I am not part of the equation. She just wants this part of her life to be over with.
Two options I see:
1. Let her live in the house (and if the guy is there then suck it up) and just live in my truck. If she brings up finances again about splitting bills and such just tell her that we need to do that and ask what her ideas are. When I have time off from work I can ask to visit the animals as if I were getting visitation with children. If she says no, then I just act cool and ask her when I can.
2. I tell her that she can go ahead and move out and I will live in the house. We split up the debt and if she can take the animals with her and let me visit great, if not, I hate to lose them but the only way I can keep them is if I can get a different job.
I would highly recommend working on yourself, developing a plan for how you are going to make yourself a better person - for you.
From reading your comments you do not appear to have a moral compass, if you did then you would recognize the similarity between sharing your spouse in a sexual manner (by your choice) and them sharing themselves with someone in a sexual manner with someone else (by their choice.)
I guess this was something you found exciting when you were in 'control' of the situation.
No Mr Nice Guy is a book you might get something out of. You can buy it via Kindle and download it in minutes.
I have been working on myself and I know the changes are needed no matter what happens to my M. When we got into swinging I thought our M was rock-solid and would never have done it otherwise. It is long and complicated but it was exciting when I was involved, not exciting when she was doing it by herself. If the sex had just been sex that was one thing but I started noticing the drifting in an emotional way and that’s when I started snooping b/c I lost trust…in turn, she lost trust in me for snooping. I've learned from those mistakes and found that moral compass, that's why if we can reconcile I don't want to swing at all ever again...just have to be careful not to be controlling in the other direction after everything that's happened.
No kindle or money right now but I did read some of the reviews on amazon. Our situation is somewhat different b/c I was pushing my W around for so long and she was trying to appease me. Now the power dynamic has changed completely and she has all of the power. I appreciate the advice and I understand about taking care of me and making myself a better person but for now I am taking dmod’s advice to not take a hardline with my W b/c it will backfire. I have to work better at DBing the right way and not let any of my “more of the same” slip in.
Establishing boundaries and standing up for something seem to be a 180 that you should implement immediately. Based on what you have said, she lost respect for you and is now seeking something she can 'respect.' {albeit in a warped and unhealthy manner}
What outcome exactly are you concerned with?
{Thanks for accepting my comment about moral compass as a comment, rather than judgement - kudos to you for that maturity)
Bleeding out a few things and then I am going to work on my goals again with all of the new info I have. I found an attorney willing to speak to me on the phone about the divorce papers and from what he could surmise they had not been filed yet and therefore were no better than a roll of toilet paper. I then called the Prothonotary offices in 2 counties and they had no record of filing so it looks like I still have some time to turn things around.
I must have had nightmares last night b/c the pillows were all over the place like I had been throwing them in my sleep. I am glad I don’t remember what they were. When I woke I felt really calm at first, almost like everything was alright and I was going to turn over to find my W in bed…but reality set in and I was messed up crying for awhile. I haven’t been able to get back to work since my car broke down which is going to cause problems b/c now it is going to be almost a week without working and finances are already bad. Stress has piled up and I just want to get back to work and focus on DBing in all its aspects.
