Exactly. As long as you are available for them to blame, they will. It isn't untill you put enough space between you and them and thy realize they are still unhappy that they MIGHT realize you aren't the cause of all their troubles.
BTW, this can often take a loooooong time. Realizing you didn't cause thir problems is just the beginning too. There is a veru long road between realizing you have a problem and working to heal a marriage.
-- I said, "I understand how you feel that way, but it's the furthest thing from the truth. I really wish you'd come back to the bed, but do what you have to."
Then I went to bed. --
Wow, that's perfect!
I was texting with my W recently and when I didn't argue certain things with me she got upset and said, "Wow ur good at ignoring the important s$&t". I responded with, "How can I respond? U feel what u feel. I ask about parts that r not clear to me." Maybe not the best but at least I didn't get defensive.
-- In their mind EVERYTHING you do is an attack. Even being nice and acomidating. --
This is something I am trying to remember. I think she wants me to act the way I did before and get angry and defensive and tell her she is wrong so she won't feel bad about what is happening.
I personally have never had any luck validating with this line. I think it comes off as a canned psych 101 line and is perceived as insincere. I find it much more effective to simply agree with them.
"Yep, you're right." "I know." "I am like that. I wish I wasn't, and I'm working to change that, but yes."
I find it defuses the anger a lot faster. It's hard to argue with someone who won't argue back.
Of course, blantant untruths can't go unchallenged, but in most cases you're just arguing with the way they FEEL and that's one you can never win.
Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Yes, its all part of it. My H said all the same stuff, did all the blaming, and I actually believed him for a while! Everything you say is an attack, and accusation. The reasons for this: 1. They want to justify their A's by thinking it is all your fault and letting you know it IS your fault. 2. They want you to hate them so they feel justified in leaving you, or maybe they actually want you to be the one to leave.
In your case Pickle she seems to be putting the words in your mouth, about hating her. And I would imagine its because you do show your anger. I used to also have an issue with anger - I had an uncontrollable temper and my H hated it. When I started DB, I was able to control that and even if H said the most outrageous things, I would not answer at all, and actually turn the tables and hug him and say sorry, and contrary to DB, would tell him that one thing I learned from all this, is that I loved him unconditionally. I had to think this out carefully, but I realized that for me that was a 180 as I was not loving to him before the bomb. I realized he noticed when he said one day, when he was again telling me about OW " I thought you should be slapping me with what I am telling you, I cannot understand why you are not angry...." and again, I just smiled and shrugged.
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
Pickle, I know this is contrary to coach and DB, and may be seen as pursuing, but since other things don't seem to be working, and you have seen sadness in her eyes when she was getting her pillow, why not try this:
Do all that DB says in this aspect: GAL, detach (do not get angry at what she says! do not let her moods affect you!), do not be reactive to the situation, act cheerful, act "as if" everthing will be OK, ignore her R and D talk, did not pursue by calling or texting too much, BUT:
Let her know of your love - tell her that you should be hating her with what she has done to you but instead you have discovered that your love is deep and unconditional, and whether she stays or leaves you will still love her. Very importantly, tell her you are not expecting love in reurn but that you cannot just keep your feelings bottled up insiode you. Do this ONCE only when an opportunity arises, or maybe write it, but DO NOT REPEAT, observe what happens. Do not talk to her about it though unless she opens up the topic.
Once in a while, touch and hug and show tenderness, but be careful, not too much!
Might be worth a try. If it pushes her away though, stop. remember the DR book which says try different tactics.
For me, going totally detached did not seem to work, it only seemd to push my H more toward the OW. Him knowing that I was there, loving him, not being angry when he expected me to, seemed to make him unsure.
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
Me 53 XW 50 M 18 Years +2 S14 D19 Bomb 10-24-10 Served 1-27-11 Mediate 4-21-11 Civil D Final 6-2-11 No church anullment "A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."
Tonight she said can we talk sometime this weekend. I wonder if it's another bomb, or something else.
Me 53 XW 50 M 18 Years +2 S14 D19 Bomb 10-24-10 Served 1-27-11 Mediate 4-21-11 Civil D Final 6-2-11 No church anullment "A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."
There is guilt there. And I am all for guilt just not that which is directly applied by the LBS.
She has to process her own guilt. She has to come to her own conclusions.
You can't fix her. You can screw things up more by your behavior, words and actions. Which is why the advice is to just validate right now. And detach from her drama.
If she wants to talk this weekend my advice?
Just listen. Don't react.
One of her perceptions right now is you hate her right?
What can you do (not words) actions to turn that around?
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
This is the hardest thing to do when she wants to "talk" because she keeps coming up with ridiculous ideas. Should I just say, "File if you must, but I won't help you dismantle this family, and I will not be a secretly divorced roommate?" Or should I "act as if" everything's fine?
"One of her perceptions right now is you hate her right?"
That's what she said, but who the heck knows? She doesn't seem to want to remember anything good about me.
"What can you do (not words) actions to turn that around?"
Even when I try to be nice like going to the cyber security thing for her, she suspects an ulterior motive. This AM when I offered to get her travel coffee ready, she said "you don't have to do that." I've been trying to balance not pursuing with being nice, but that's getting me nowhere.
Me 53 XW 50 M 18 Years +2 S14 D19 Bomb 10-24-10 Served 1-27-11 Mediate 4-21-11 Civil D Final 6-2-11 No church anullment "A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."
When Truegritter says listen, just listen! Try not to say a word. Nod your head, look her in the eyes.
If she's crazy, and you respond, it will be a crazy conversation. Just tell yourself that it is like you are talking to someone who is sick!
If she tells you she wants to file, and demands you respond, Just tell her: I'm sorry you feel that way, I do not agree with you for the childrens sake, but do not show any anger, do not incite her to get angry, and do not overexplain! When I tried to talk to my H and make him see logic we ended up getting all twisted up, and even he himself realized that we talked ourselves into a worse situation.
You yourself notice that any attempt at conversation makes things worse, so do not attempt, do not initiate! I did that, right now I am in that phase again, as he is depressed and tends to snap at me when I ask for anything. Thet see any kind of conversation as being imposing, thats why, or being controlling. So back off, BIG TIME!
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
