I think its over help pls

[blue2010]

I have backed off prob 98% I am thinking before I speak. Validating, we have not argued in at least a week, she gets defensive over childrens events that she cannot attend due to schedule especially if it includes any atypical behavior on my part. She said she is staying at her siblings tonight I said ok. She is going to look at places tomorrow and can't make it home before work so I said ok instead of the kids are going to miss you.
She stopped jolting away from my slight touch again, she asked some questions about some small house work being planned and finished with do what you want but left out the whatever its going to be yours anyway like a week ago. I wont see her til monday. That's my evening synopsis. Thanks all keep that advice coming I will get through this one way or another.

[blue2010]

The background on the "place" it started as a second ownership for her that we could possibly rent in the future because she just needed the space. She can't see renting because there are some purchases that are the same monthly cost. I am avoiding the argument. A purchase this time of year can take 3 months.She said she didn't want to end up with us hating each other this was probably 6 weeks ago. She has never said she is done with our M. She is an emotional mess. I keep subtly reminding her I AM HERE. like a rock.
She has never actually asked for a seperation or divorce, when i did ask if that was what she wanted she never would answer. I took everyones advice and put those words away.
She is taking baby steps towards a real seperation. I will not ask for the divorce she wants it she can ask I will not make that easy.
She is still taking care of business I am keeping an eye on everything.
I will fight harder to fix it my children deserve that, as messed up as this is, this marriage deserves it.
Her sister knows the story and confronterd OM according to OM spouse. OM Spouse said he was going to send a NC text because he does not like letters that may have been last nights one way txt. I will be following up.
If I had told my W no don't go look at places that would have made her want to look more. So when she said she was going i said in my supportive friend voice, you know where I am if you need anything. She had a slightly surprised look on her face. I have come to realize through everyones feedback and all my reading a better way to act so I thank you all. I have read about validation.
This could have been me in her shoes.
She knows I do not want her to move out my IC knows that our MC knows that, i did tell her but you need to do what you need to do and I can't stop you. That seemed to take some wind out of the sail.

DO I tell her to stay somwhere else? Or Just not discourage it when she decides to. I also want her to be reminded that her family wants her here. There is a whole lot of I miss mommy starting. But If I tell her that I am using the children against her according to my W.
I sometimes write what I need to say because when I actually say it I miss points or it comes out wrong.

Time will tell. It's nice out, cold but nice I should close this computer for the day and take the kids outside maybe ring up some lights.

[sandi2]

she gets defensive over childrens events that she cannot attend due to schedule especially if it includes any atypical behavior on my part.

Was she that way before all of this happened? Working moms can feel guilty when they can't attend events for the kids.

Does having an apartment (b/c she needs space) include the children? I know couples who only see each other a few times a week due to the type of jobs they have. However, for a wife/mother to decide that she needs her own place b/c she needs space has a lot of holes in it, IMO.

I keep subtly reminding her I AM HERE.

It may not seem so subtle to her. I'd suggest you hold back from doing that. It doesn't take much for a WAW to feel smothered or pressured.

I also want her to be reminded that her family wants her here.

Typical for a LBH to want to remind his WAW of things along those lines, but I don't think it works in a positive way to "remind". That is "fix it" techniques and you can't fix her.

There is a whole lot of I miss mommy starting. But If I tell her that I am using the children against her according to my W.

So back to my question, does staying in an apartment not include her children? Are you suppose to take care of the kids while she is having her space? I think that needs to be agreed upon first, before the decision to get her own place. How does she think it will affect her kids? That's what you need to discuss before worrying if you tell her to go or not.

[blue2010]

Yes I am the primary caregiver. But she only works part time. I have a decent income. If we seperate I would have the kids more she will not take them from their comfort zone. She has said she would be the one to leave. That is not what I want not that I can change what she feels. I wish I could. She has thrown out the idea of a temp apartment last week and purchasing a home. The purchase idea initially came with a statement that who knows what could happen and maybe we could rent it if things work out. That was 4-6 weeks ago. Today she's looking.
She thinks the kids are not going to miss her. Although I have heard I miss mommy about 10 times today. 4 Kids 11 and under.
How do I let her know they miss her when she thinks I am manipulating that?

[blue2010]

Is part of WAW the mom who gradually stops calling to say goodnight to or goes a night and day without checking in on the kids when she used to check in a couple times a day?

[sandi2]

How do I let her know they miss her when she thinks I am manipulating that?

You don't. Whatever you would say, she'd take it as manipulation. You let the kids tell her. Do the older ones have her phone number and does she allow them to call her whenever they want, or has she given them a window in which they can place calls to her? My heart really goes out to your babies.

Turning her attention away from her children is a trait of WAW's. She's different now.

So, are you going to finance her new place? If so, why?

[blue2010]

We will see if the not calling becomes regular. She has said they can call anytime we r seperated in the house. No I will not support her new place if we end up that far. Still hoping not to.

[bluestar]

Disbelief, I suggest that you get control of your money and your household stuff. She is not trustworthy right now. She also needs to understand her true income as a WAW, which will not include yours. She won't be able to find a place until she understands that. I've noticed in your last few posts she's made referances to "maybe we could rent later, if things work out...". DO NOT trust this. She is using these statements to get your money so she can purchase whatever she wants. Don't do it. Protect yourself financially because you and your children will need it.

My H stayed away from our kids too initially after we separated. It made him feel guilty and face the reality of what he'd done. I let them call his cell. If he didn't answer, they left him a message. I didn't even though I was close by sometimes for our youngest, I didn't say a word so he couldn't say I was manipulating her.

I would also suggest discussing a vistiation schedule next time she brings up moving. That way she knows you expect her to take some parental responsibility. If she expects to just runaway, you need to know so you can protect yourself legally.

Otherwise, you seem to be doing better at the validation and no pursuit. Hang in there. This isn't something we're naturally good at.

[blue2010]

[quote=bluestar]Disbelief, I suggest that you get control of your money and your household stuff. She is not trustworthy right now. She also needs to understand her true income as a

She has stayed commited to taking care of the household finances. She is trying to ensure that what she does that this morgage does not need to refinance. Some of her thinking is off but we may need a mediator for that she is planning on working more as well. I am watching everything at this point.

[blue2010]

This evenings conversation tied in with another forum post of mine.
3) Finally, regarding her moving out v. staying at sister's, and saying "the kids miss you" I would suggest this. If you are working on yourself, getting a life, becoming the guy you have the potential to be, ending the Love Extinguishers, and re-starting Love Kindlers, you will be better able to show her those changes if she does not move out. One possible solution might be to suggest a MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING. Let her know you understand she is considering moving out but in an effort to be financially responsible adults around the Holiday Season, what if we agreed to an "in house" separation and splitting the bills 50/50? Have her rent a room or something! Be creative. The point is that choice #1 would be have her stay home in your bed "no rush to make a decision", #2 have her stay home at least, #3 stay with her sister and #4 rent or buy something (because option #4 will carry legal implications such as a lease or mortgage). But no matter which choice you two finally select, please don't use "the kids miss you." If the kids do miss her, give them permission to tell her that themselves...it is between her and her children and it is their relationship. Using them as a tool in YOUR relationship (ie, using children as leverage in the adult relationship) is not cool for the kids or the adults. Guilting someone does not win love. Being LOVING and the kind of man she would admire and love...does!

Well she jumps right to 4. She feels she needs her own space. She wants to go get the legal paperwork done so she can get a mortgage approved and i do not have to change this one. She feels she can't stay at her sisters she doesn't want to rent she found a property that is also a good investment property. I have not used miss the kids I am letting the kids do that themselves. Buying over the holidays should take a couple months. We still haven't had a good solid financial conversation. One of us has been to emotional each time.
She discussed the property told me she had to get legal advice on a couple of things. She still fears i am going to pull some evil card on something with the kids like custody ??? That almost reinforces Fog because I just am not like that. She completly dismissed the notion that she was going to speak to a lawyer about D, only real estate. She followed up with you never know what 6 months from now will bring. I asked her what she needs right now. She said she needs a home. She doesn't feel at home .....in her home and she admits she created that. She discussed our differences that lead to some of this. I wish she had been so direct in the past. She somewhat took responsibility for not being direct.
I said something about there being another choice and she is just stuck that there is no other way to go. How can there be, this will never go away, it will always be there she says . She believes I am going to hold ( I think her it was the A) over her forever. The marital things she described all comes down to communication. I did not push, that was the most she let out since D Day.
She would not answer the question of wether or not she was still speaking with OM she rolled her eyes at me and said why don't you ask OM wife. Why don't you check the phone bill. I didn't really respond. This to me either means she is or he did do a NC via txt last night.
I suppose a couple months is enough to work on stuff. Even if she goes through with the purchase. If I fight it that would probably be worse. I was calm and kind tonight I reminded her I cared. I did not ask about our future I let her lead the conversation. I have learned.
She wouldn't look me in the eye when talking about the real estate.
I don't know if anything I do will open her mind to the possibility of recovery. What could I say to stimulate that thought process?