Fix me, fix my life, win back my wife

[Truegritter]

She is looking for an apology from my mother, should I tell my mother this?

Oh well I know this dynamic.

Not your job to repair this relationship. Your job not to damage it.

What?

I mean let your Mom and your W work it out. If your Mom is interfering in YOUR M tell her politely stop.

If your W expects you to intervene on her behalf then tell her politely that you cannot control your Mom or how she feels.

DO NOT bash your W in front of your mom.

DO NOT bash your mom in front of your W.

It is almost like your children. You do not want to interfere with their relationship with their Mom. It is her job to repair anything there for HER.

Don't make it harder by building hills that people have to climb if and/or when there is a desire to repair that relationship.

This may be undoing a dynamic that BOTH of you have allowed to occur in your M.

She wishes she'd dated other people, and told me again that she feels like she only married me because she is was guilty that she cheated on me.

OK if you believe this (and I am skeptical this is the real truth only the truth right now in her mind) then would you want your W back under that condition?

Do you think someone who truly believes this will make a M work and be committed to it with love and integrity?

See where I am going?

Do you want your M back now at any cost?

She must figure out for herself what she wants and that has nothing to do with you only that you must SHOW her the man you are now or want to be NOW.

If she desires that man truly for what he is. Then your M has a shot.

So the work you must do is for YOU.

[ScaredinCanada]

Thanks Truegritter, you sound like Yoda in those first couple of lines.

I want to let my W and my mother work it out, it's just that right now my W has no interest in talking to her at all. I spoke to my mother last night as I had to tell her that things are really difficult right now and that my W is very upset/angry at the sitch. So I've let them know that they are not invited to D2's birthday this weekend. It was hard to do, but I know at this point it must be done.

My mother took it very well, she was calm and rational and she actually explained that she understood that working on myself and my W working on herself needed to come first. She's found happiness, and no longer harbours any negative feelings towards my W. Obviously my W doesn't believe this, and thinks she's playing games.

At some point the 2 of them need to talk, I'm just not sure how that is going to happen - and I fear that if it doesn't it WILL BE the undoing of my marriage.

I know that my W has been hurt by my mother over the years both intentionally and implied, and even though it's late I'm trying to support her fully now.

I don't bash either of them to one another, the only change I've tried to make is to agree with my W that my mother has hurt her.

Oh I fully agree that we've both allowed it to continue. My W has complained to me a number of times over the years about things my mother has done or said, with the intention that I am supposed to deal with it, and obviously some of those times I should have dealt with it - but didn't. Also, at times my W should have stood upto my mother and spoke honestly about her feelings.

The next step will be Christmas - do I just assume that as a family we won't see my parents over the holidays? Do I work over the next 3-4 weeks to try and get my W and mother to talk and resolve the tension that remains? I was really hopeing that would come out at counselling that my W needs to "deal with the issues she has with my mother" instead of avoiding them for the rest of her life.

I don't truly believe that she wishes she dated other people, I think it's just a result of a lot of negative feelings. Feeling lost, hurt and angry. She wants to believe that she could have made a better choice, a choice where there would be unconditional love all around. I think that's probably a normal reaction. The reality is that we didn't exactly have the optimal family support systems on either side to nurish a positive and happy relationship. I think we both "needed" each other to help fill other gaps in our life. Again, that was a LONG LONG time ago. 2 marriages (1 that was called off and 1 where we actually got married), a dog, 2 houses and 3 daughters have been the result hardwork and commitment to each other.

I know I've failed miserably as a H over the last number of years, but I am changing for the better. I believe in myself, and I believe in my W and my M. I know this can work because I love her and I do care about her. I know I can find happiness, and I know we can be happy together.

At first I wanted my M back at any cost, but I'm starting to realize that it needs to be on my terms as well. She needs to be commited to the kids and me forever - not untl she finds something better.

She sees the man I am becoming everyday - and she continully tells me to stop. She says that's not the man I am and who she knows. Heck I can't even say "Thanks for dinner" when she makes dinner now without her rolling her eyes at me! I mean come on, I wasn't that bad. I was just inconsistant, and unthoughtful at times. I realize that, and that's not the PERSON I want to be...regardless if I am still a H or not.

It is for me. I am the only person that can make positive changes for me.

1) Keep going to the gym, focus on improving my self-worth.
2) Continue to play hockey every week.
3) Spend quality time with my daughers.
4) Avoid the distractions.
5) Get to bed early, being tired makes me irritable.
6) Goto counselling.
7) Start cooking classes in the new year.
8) Stay positive, be thoughtful, and find happiness.

[Ruikee]

I captured this from a member on this board the last time i successfully DB'd. May help someone now. His name was preserve, credit to him...


After a long series of fights and some significant disillusion on my wife’s part regarding our marriage, we separated Oct. 29th of 2005. Married for 5 years with one young daughter. Regrettably, I moved out and as far as my wife was concerned, our marriage was over. Like so many of you out there, I was devastated. Fortunately, after the first few weeks, I found this website and Michelle’s book. Without a doubt, the advice and experiences that I gleaned from both the book and this board saved my marriage and gave me some sanity during my separation. After 5 long months, my wife and I have reconciled and our marriage is stronger than ever. We still have some healing to do, but I am back home with my wife and daughter. I thought it would be fitting to share what I have learned during the process, and reiterate some key elements of Michelle’s program that I found critical.

Before doing so, I should point out that my situation may be different than some. For one, there was not another man in the picture and my wife remained celibate during our separation as did I. The breakdown of my marriage stemmed from her anger and hurt that resulted mostly from my behavior. Biggies included: 1) an addiction to online pornography, 2) working too much, 3) partying too much and 4) not meeting her emotional needs. So some of you may be in a slightly different situation, particularly if there is an EA or PA in the works. Either of these adds another layer of complexity to a marriage breakdown. Also, at times I thought for sure my marriage was over. I was on the proverbial rollercoaster, and heard those terrible words after everything seemed to be going ok: “I don’t want any contact from this point forward, you will hear from me in about a month to work out the details…my decision is final. I wish you luck…” blah, blah, blah…..A month and half later I moved back home. BUT, some of you will not, and I have been through it once already, and you have to remember that you will heal and there will be a future, and it might be a lot better than the past.

Regardless, below are the most important things I learned and applied from DBing:

1. Buy Divorce Busting and the books and read them five times, and them read five more times.

2. Give her space and don’t pressure: This - my friends - is numero uno. If you cannot do this, you WILL surely end your marriage or at minimum prolong emotional and physical distance between you and your spouse indefinitely. Don’t believe me? Then keep doing it and see what happens. I know it is hard, and yes, it was unbelievably frustrating for me. At first I did not succeed, and it really pissed her off. To you such behavior may seem as if you are showing your commitment and love, but to her, you are being selfish and disrespectful. My wife told me recently that one of the most important things I did during our separation was to back off and let her think. She needed to MISS ME. Last Christmas she went home to her parents (who by the way despise me and still do) and I drove across the country to see my family. I did not call or email for two weeks. Guess who started to call and email me saying she missed me within a week or so? SO, this means stop calling, stop emailing, stop text messaging, stop asking for dates/time together etc. etc. If you want her back, LEAVE HER ALONE. Pressure speaks volumes about desperation and weakness – something women find incredibly unattractive. Women want someone who is strong, silent and dependable. Begging, pleading, crying, manipulating and trying to convince her to change her mind will only make you repulsive and WILL push her out the door faster than anything else! You have to be strong and cool. This does not mean you should ignore her completely. But in general, let her contact you, and if she won’t, DON’T pick up the phone or email. Let her know occasionally that you are her friend and you are there for her or your kids (if you have any) if they/she need anything. And I mean, a one or two sentence email or voicemail, and don’t tell her you love her and miss her, and don’t use this as an excuse to get her on the phone and start blabbering about how much you love her, want a second chance, will change, want to make it work…blah blah blah, because all that she hears is exactly that - “blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine moan, moan, moan.” She hears a pathetic, frightened man (which we all are when we going through this) but don’t let her see it. Who wants to live with and depend upon someone like this? I wouldn’t. So, for God’s sake people, IF YOU WANT HER BACK LEAVE HER ALONE. She is driving this train, and you have to accept that. Patience is your indispensable ally. Cloying attempts at affection and desperation are your enemies. There is nothing you can say or do to change her mind. If she does change her mind, it will be on her terms and her schedule – period. No pressure also means NO ULTIMATIUMS such as “you have one month to make a decision, or I am going to file for divorce.” This is a very bad idea. You will likely get it. Keep your mouth shut and back off.

3. When you are together ALWAYS AGREE, keep your mouth shut and LISTEN intently to every word she says: When you do get chance to talk to her or spend time with her – and you will – ALWAYS try your hardest to be upbeat, positive, friendly, considerate and DON’T get angry or talk about your feelings and what YOU WANT. Stay positive and don’t bring up the relationship unless she does, and when she does, keep your trap shut and listen to everything she says. Want to stay out of trouble? Listen. Want to get back in the house? Listen. Want to have a long loving relationship? Listen. My God, listen till the blood drips from your ears; listen till you want to scream out a solution; listen until she has nothing left to say and when she’s done, shut up and listen some more. Women are the caregivers and if you want her to give, you’d better do some caring. Not only should you listen, but when you do speak, always AGREE. Validate what she says, and don’t argue. For example, “you were a complete jerk, you hurt me, you never spent time with our family, you’re selfish, you have two heads, the moon is made of chocolate etc etc…” I don’t care what she says, just say…”You’re right…I was a jerk, I am sorry and I screwed up…and your right the moon is made of chocolate and I have two heads. If you want me to leave, I understand, your right, maybe it would never work, but I do love you and I’ll always be here for you and the kids if you need anything.” It works people. When she starts talking about your failures and why the marriage was so horrible, much of which is probably true, she is waiting for you to react in anger, hurt, frustration, and let you say horrible things to her, blame her for everything and storm out of the house because this is the type of behavior that validates her thoughts, expectations and rationalizations for walking away. Such behavior will make her feel better. When you DON’T act like this, it will throw her for a loop and she will be completely bewildered. Try it. But you have to be consistent. As aside, this doesn’t mean you should be a doormat. This simply means listening and validating her feelings, thoughts and emotions regarding you, her and the marriage. It does not mean that you have to accept ridiculous requests regarding things such as financial or property issues. If these come up, respectfully and calmly disagree. In fact, you can use them to buy time. For example, you might say: “that is not acceptable to me at this point, and it is something we can negotiate or work out in a few weeks, but I am sure we can find an amiable middle ground. I don’t want you and the kids to be a bad position. Remember I am your best friend regardless of what happens.”

4. Change (do the 180s) and don’t tell her you have or are changing: Now this one is actually as important as the first one because if don’t make some changes, then you will be back in the same boat soon enough. Also, the changes will make you happier. In my case, I had to do some serious soul searching and self analyzing that included counseling and joining a support group for sexual addiction (i.e., online pornography). Both have helped me immensely. Now…you cannot tell your wife that you are or have changed. Words don’t mean sh** especially to our estranged spouses. Actions speak louder than words, and make sure the changes and self realizations are genuine. She will be watching even if you don’t realize it; and your behavior will be scrutinized very closely. She is examining everything under a microscope under high magnification, and please don’t try and B.S. or manipulate her. Women hate it when they perceive that they are being manipulated in a relationship. She will see right through it like panes of glass…trust me on this one. In some cases, they will get really pissed when you start making changes and start cater wallowing about why you didn’t do these things before you separated and cause everyone so much pain…etc. etc. “why did it take this for you to realize you needed some help.” Let them say it….respond with something like “men are insulated and sometimes it takes something really devastating before we realize our shortcomings” and this is true of course.

5. “Get a life” (GAL) or at least act like you are getting a life and doing “just fine:” Go to the gym, go hiking, take trips, go for a walk, take classes. You get the idea. They are not going to want to come back to you until they can see that you are strong enough to survive without them, and anyway, doing things might make you feel better. In my case, only the trips really helped and in general I felt pretty crappy regardless of what I was doing. BUT, don’t let them know this. Don’t show it. Fake it if you have to. If you are doing fun and interesting things, they will wonder about it, and probably wish they were doing them with you. However, as is the case with your 180s, it may piss them off. I remember my wife saying something like “oh, now you are having fun and doing all these wonderful and positive things that you would never do with me...guess my love wasn’t enough.” Let them say it, shut up and keep doing what you are doing because it is getting their attention. If anything, say something like “you would love for them to join you but are not going to push because you are respecting their need for space and time.” What about “going dark?” You have to be careful with this one because it can backfire depending upon your situation. In mine, it was delicate because one of her complaints was that I was too distant in our marriage. So I had to be careful here, but it does help somewhat. However, when she called or emailed during dark periods, I was always there to answer the phone or respond to the email ASAP.

Hope this helps and good luck to you all. I know it sucks, but hang in there. Things will get better regardless of what happens with your current situation. The most important thing I learned was to back off, give her space, detach whatever you want to call it without appear to abandon her or my child. This is the hardest thing to do, but it is absolutely necessary if you want success.

[ScaredinCanada]

Thanks Ruikee, great advice.

I really feel like I'm following those steps, except for #1 as I don't have any of the books. I almost stopped and picked them up the other day, but I'm just not sure when I'll actually have time to read them.

I was going to start to Divorce Remedy...

[Cadet]

I'm just not sure when I'll actually have time to read them.

Just like in DR/DB do everything in small manageable steps.
Read 1 chapter a night or spend 10 mins reading the book each day.
Soon enough you will have finished the whole thing, even though you have "no time"

[Mach1]

The link to the first chapter of DR is on the forum front page...

[ScaredinCanada]

I'm feeling really good about my progress lately even though my W noticing is usually followed by a comment to the effect of "just stop it, that's not who you are".

Last night I told her I was taking the kids swimming, and we had a fantastic time. She told me she was going shopping with her mother and that she be back to help me put the kids to bed.

I ended up getting home late (getting 3 little girls showered and dressed at a public pool is a ton of work!!) and was kind of surprised to see that my W was not home. So I got the kids to bed, and finished cleaning up the kitchen from dinner.

As I am finishing making the kids lunches for school, my W shows up. She's half in the bag, since they decided to go have some drinks after shoping (in side I was frustrated) but I put on a happy face and just said "I hope you had fun". To which she responded "How does it feel to have to do EVERYTHING yourself???" to which I respond "I'm actually enjoying it a lot, I'm kind of surprised" to which she had to respond "Well try doing it for 7 years and then we'll see how you feel" and she went upto bed.

Of course I was hurt, angry and frustrated so instead of following her upstairs I just finished the lunches and picked up the kids toys and took the dog out quickly (continued to be busy). I came upto bed (total of probably 15 minutes after she went upstairs to bed) and climbed into bed and said "Good night" to which she didn't say anything.

The best part is...I feel awesome! Like has been said in other threads I've read - she is frustrated that I am not devestated to be "out in her shoes".

I've been good all week, she works tonight and I have hockey (can't wait) - so she'll be in bed by the time I get home from hockey. We likely won't say anything to each other today.

Enjoy the midday football everyone! I wish I was having turkey today...Happy Thanksgiving to those celebrating!

[Truegritter]

"just stop it, that's not who you are".

Actions are speaking loudly.

She IS watching you. She doesn't believe the changes so keep it up.

AND

Now your actions are becoming YOU. Not a tactic.

You are doing great IMO SIC.

Keep those emotions where they belong. In your head not out of your mouth.

Or write them here as you have done.

Keep stepping toward being the strong man you want to be.

[ScaredinCanada]

Thanks Truegritter,

This encouragement is great, and all of you are helping me so much. I never thought I'd be able to do it, but just being consistant over a single week has shown me that I have the ability to change. In a lot of ways I already have...

Happy Thanksgiving!

[ScaredinCanada]

Just went for a jog/walk all over downtown for about an hour. Just couldn't help being scared in general. I know my life, I want my life. I now realize that I need to do the things necessary in order to be able to have a happy and healthy M. The weekends are so much harder, since I'm home with my W most of the time.

My youngerst D's birthday party tomorrow, should be interesting. It's about her, no me or the W. Just have to keep reminding myself.

I wanted to ask some advice about 2 things. With Christmas coming up my W has told me on a number of occasions to "not bother getting anything for her" she knows it "too much trouble"...I know she's so full of $hlt it's coming out of her ears, but I also want the gifts to be small and thoughtful...not big and expensive as I don't want her to feel trapped. I'm working on some "thoughtful" type things, but it's not easy.

Also, like I said before our 8th year anniversary is in the middle of January. I wanted to try and plan something romantic and special (a couple nights away at a retreat of some kind) but my W said that we can just plan to go out for dinner or something. Should I go ahead and plan a weekend away and not tell her until shortly before the time or do I do what she's says and don't plan anything?

Thanks and have a good weekend.