BTW, can you post a link to your sitch? My sitch? I Have not had my own thread for a few years now and think they deleted mine & several others, with the "new" system ("new"= about 2 years ago). A lot of it is in my signature. But to summarize, well, actually, No, now that I think about it, I'll post a new thread of my own and not hijack yours. Details later. NOW Back to YOU.
I will check out the posts from today. I was following earlier today.
Thanks for checking in again!
No problem. See you soon.
As for your past history with cheaters...yi yi yi....(SIGH) Coincidentally had a similar convo with My bff from high school. Here we are "older" now, and she just got left by her h for OW. Damn it if the same thing didn't happen to her in high school with her first love. And that first love repeated (came back into her life in college) and dang him if he didn't cheat again!! So yeah, she and I had THIS conversation the other day. I can't speak for you, Zen, but my bff said what I THINK you are saying, which is something like this: "what's up with MY choices if this keeps happening? Are all men pigs, or is it something I do, or what?"
A good IC can help you (both) with that. I guess Check for patterns and similiarities in the guys & other check for events/conditions in your life that were also going on. Obvoiusly, we all want to learn from mistakes and reduce this crap from repeating.
But regardless, here's the thing I was told by my fav aunt and mentor about dating and heartbreak etc. that I wanted to pass on to you and anyone else in the same boat, girl or guy.
You can be cheated on by 2 guys, or 8 guys, or 3 husbands, etc. You can be lied to or lied about, manipulated, ignored, screened out, dumped, or pursued by a weirdo, stalked by a guy who won't take obvious "hints", rudely treated or constantly teased ("oh, just joking!") or harassed ("Still just kidding. Why are you so OVERLY sensitive?") by a guy with zero social skills. All this can happen and it all can suck really badly. For a long time!
But unlike a game where scores are kept, or investments of money that must be kept track of and measured, in the "game of love" we only need to meet ONE RIGHT MAN/WOMAN to...WIN.
When that happens, when you meet "the ONE", the rest of the bad all stops counting. It's over. No more lying. No more weirdness, awkwardness, no more loneliness, no more getting stood up or dumped or cheated on. B/C you are done. The scoring for the bad guys stops.
You found him and he found you. He won't lie to or about you, & You won't lie to him either. Yes you might roll your eyes when he makes a goofy joke and screws up the punch line,(but NOT with contempt for him b/c you too have grown into a better partner) or gets lost and keeps on NOT wanting to ask for directions, & leaves the toilet seat up or hates chick flicks BUT at least pretends to watch them anyhow.
Will you have problems with "the one"? YES you will! Relationships are made up of humans and we are flawed b/c that's what we are. We're all searching for tools to help us oil and fix our flaws, and work together as best we can, flaws, warts and all. Yes we'll struggle, but the "numbers of jerks" won't continue to be tallied - b/c it only takes one winner, one NON Jerk, to stop the tallying.
With "the one", the fundamentals will be there. No core element of a R or marriage will be missing (e.g. honesty, commitment, love, work, faith, values in common, goals in common, communication skills, etc) SO the base or "flooring" on which our hearts must be able to stand and rest, will be there. Whatever your deal breakers or non negotiable needs are, they'll be met (or he's NOT "the one"). No one is perfect, we here at DB get that. But there ARE men/women out there who can match up with our core basics. That's our starting point for knowing we have "the one". IS there ONLY One? No. I don't think so. If there are, then my widowed sister is screwed. Seriously, I think there are a finite number of "ones" out there but they exist. To settle for someone lacking a core basic, is NOT smart or healthy and I think you are saying that's what you are not up for and that, I agree with fully. But assume you meet "the one". He's got all the core basics, the character, honesty, work values, goals in common and OMG chemistry too! WTH?? IS IT POSSIBLE?? Why yes it is my friend, yes it is.
If it were me, (and it IS me) With that grounding, I'd know we'll make it work. And it won't feel like "work" so much as a labor of love, like giving birth. Painful but worth it and sometimes the only way to get what you so want and need. Hope this makes sense to you.
I'm trying to say that down the line, don't give up on men or love. You can feel as if you are "way behind" on the score b/c maybe 12 guys have now cheated or lied to you and only 2 were nice (but they were ugly or gay or moved away,) etc...that's not a 12-2 "Score"...
It's 14/0 learning experiences and they all help you identify, target, and appreciate fully, the ONE- when you meet him/her. Then it's ONE GAZILLION to the 12 & that means you win by...a mile.
Okay so Metaphors are not perfect, but let's try this one. Imagine the "game of love" or dating, is a lottery. Imagine that you were sad about all the times you lost a $1 or $50 ticket or that $1000 ticket you colored in so well...Remember how bad it felt when even THAT ticket didn't win either? All that time you spent on it...and still, it didn't win. You had fun thinking about it when you had it in your hand, you day dreamed about what you'd do with the money from it, and you and your buddy had a good time driving down to buy the ticket, but geez, it didn't win....
But now imagine, you bought another lottery ticket and you really picked the numbers smartly & chatted with close friends/family about it, and carefully scratched the right numbers off, not tearing it the way you once did, or mistakenly marking the wrong one the way you did before, but doing it just right this time. Now, Imagine THIS ticket is the one. You have WON THE JACKPOT!! (clap clap clap clap...thunderous applause...horns blaring!!)
Ahem...now then....When you win the big jackpot, how much will those lost tickets matter anymore? You Remember them? How badly they hurt to lose? Remember how you felt so tired and sad, that you almost did NOT buy another ticket???
Yes, well, exactly my point. It only takes ONE good guy/woman to make all the other bad experiences, or losses, worth it. Heck, without some of those losses, you'd never know how lucky you are to meet the "right" ONE. Not to mention the whole "Oh btw, I have a great kid(s) to boot."
*(As an aside zen, if the only way I could have my children with me now, was to endure those bad MLC years again, AND lose my h & Marriage this time, I'd do it all again in a heartbeat. They're amazing gifts in my life, and the rest of it beyond them, is all gravy)*
Have a great week. Be glad that your mil is not the enemy you feared. Sorry about her situation though. Recall my big bro? He left my wonderful ex sil. I told him he was a fool, selfish, delusional, etc. But I would not disown him (would not help her or anyone anyhow and not my job in life). But Once I made it clear how I felt, then I had a clear conscience. Then he went on and did his own thing. Fast forward a decade, as I told you before, turns out he did my ex sil a huge favor and she is truly happier now than she would have been had my bro stayed m to her. And my niece is likewise better off. Who'd have thunk it? Point is, like your mil MAY feel, I can say that I love my bro. He's a good son to my mom, (My mom adores my bro!) He's a half decent brother to me. He's great at his job and is a witty descriptive writer too. But he's a lousy husband and remarried and he's still a lousy husband. My mother agrees! he's Marginally better now with wife #2, but not much. C'est la vie. So, Your mil can love and adore her son, but still know he's a lousy h. Your job with her is to be a great mom to your d, her grand daughter. Oh good, that "job" happens to match your life goal. Ah, life is good when goals match up!! Peace out. Will post my own "new" thread in a few days.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
really wish we had an EDIT button b/c I am rambling and it's so late! I would have taken a few CHUNKS out of this post...sorry for rambling and doing my "free association" thing, Zen!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
WOW 25! Just WOW! BOY, did I need to read this. I've been having the poor, poor, pitiful me's for the last few days. Missing H, the Holidays, the whole basket. Don't apologize. It was eloquent. Just what I needed to hear at just the right time. Facing the end of a 20 year marriage, feeling I've wasted my 30's and 40's; what good could possibly lie ahead for poor Punkin? Not to Hi-jack, Zen, but I, and possibly a few others at this time, really needed this wake up call.
Thank you very much, 25, and Thank you Zen for asking for it.
Thanks 25, that was great. Don't mind the rambling at all btw, it was all good stuff!
I am gratefull for my beautifull, funny, sweet baby girl. I know I only get to have her because of my time with my H, and I was blessed to have such a crazy little firecracker.
I am not giving up on love, but I am not going to consider myself a failure if I don't find someone I want to be with. I am willing to take the time and do the work to be in a healthy R, not simply repeat old patterns again.
And yes, those patterns ARE there. I grew a lot when I left my first M, but I jumped into a new R too fast. I had started, but not finished my "work."
Compared to my previous R's my H was definately a trade up for me, despite all his flaws. I can't make him be a better person, that is his job. I can make myself a better person, and I will.
I am going to be a better me. I am going to be a better mom. Maybe someday I will be a better partner too. For now I am more concerned about the first two tasks though.
As for your past history with cheaters...yi yi yi.... she and I had THIS conversation the other day. I can't speak for you, Zen, but my bff said what I THINK you are saying, which is something like this: "what's up with MY choices if this keeps happening? Are all men pigs, or is it something I do, or what?"
Hi Zen,
I can totally relate to what 25 and you are saying.
I started to post a long post on your thread and decided it was too much about me. So I posted it in my thread for my journey through this.
Hey Warrior, gonna steal your post-stealing idea. Found somethin’ I need to mull over for a bit too.
On the cheating, I am sure it has to do with how I "teach" people to interact with me. Still working on figuring out what I do specifically.
In general terms though, I forgive way too easy, even when someone doesn't ask for it. I also am horrible at setting boundries. I also tend to equate trus with love. It was one thing that got in the way of me seeing the MLC storm brewing. It also got in the way of me confronting my H before he had emotionally checked out.
Just my two cents but I don't think this is a good approach. You're concentrating on the negative. The lies are a symptom of the MLC. The MLC is, in essence, a mental illness. I'm not, IN ANY WAY, saying that what your H is doing is excusable. But realize that the lies are a part of the whole MLC. When I felt the way you did, I remembered that my H was in fact deeply ill. Deeply disturbed. Deeply hurting. Empathy is easier to find that way. It seems that you're seeing small glimpses of his pain every now and again. And it is very very real. My H told me that there were days that he'd wrap himself in his comforter in his apartment and just stare and the ceiling for hours depressed.
I know this advice was for Pie, but I needed to hear it too.
I am having a great deal of trouble with anger. I have been struggling with my own anger and hurt. It has helped me detach, but not necessarily in a good way. I feel anger and apathy for a man I have loved for 14 years.
Maybe thinking of my H as hurting and ill is a way for me to let him go with love instead of resentment.
The trick for me will be not to fall into my normal pattern of giving him a free pass on his behavior because I “understand.”
I am in such an odd place. With so little I can do to change my R with my H, there is still so much I have to do for myself. So much of it is inside though. These 180’s are only seen by me.
So, neighbor called as I was driving home to ask if I knew H was at my house.
Nope. I did not.
He was gone by the time I got home.
I’m not worried, but he has been doing this more often lately. He is dropping in with no notice, but not being at all subtle. It is to the point that I can almost count on a visit if he is dropping or picking up D3.
This time he called to tell me he had come by. Probably saw my neighbor and figured I would hear about it. We ended up talking longer than we had in a long time. Nothing heavy, just schedules and holidays.
D3 got invited to go with the big cousins to see Disney on Ice tomorrow & he wanted to know what he could do to help. He had actually texted the same thing earlier. Couldn’t think of anything, but I thanked him. He also said he had paid the daycare today. I must really be in a haze. I haven’t forgotten that before. He offered to pay daycare every week. I may take him up on that, especially since he no longer is putting money in the account.
He asked if I needed help with the green beans I am bringing to TK day. I told him I had it handled, but he was welcome to come by and help if he wanted to. He said he would be working till one, so he didn’t know.
Seriously? What is so difficult about green beans that he wants to help? And for that matter, why did he offer if he was going to sleep in!?
Crazy MLC man…
Anyway, he asked about Christmas plans. He had offered to fly me and D3 up to Michigan so I could be with my family. A nice thought (if he has no ulterior motives) but too much crazy for me. I don’t have any extra time off, so it would be a huge rush on the busiest travel days of the year. Yuck.
H doesn’t like Christmas and has said D3 could spend most of it with me anyway. Every other year we have spent with his family. I did all the prep work and he complained about how crazy and overwhelming it was.
Told him that I wanted to skip the giant overnight family celebration and do things my own way this year. This year is all about keeping it easy and low stress.
Going to drop gifts with the cousins and grandparents, but stay home the rest of the time. He said he didn’t know what he would be doing with work and everything, but man-o-man did he sound wistful.
I planned the perfect Christmas for me, but I know that is how he always wanted it to be too. He just never could stand up to his mom’s idea of how it should go.
I told him he is welcome to come or not come to any part he wants to. Don’t worry though, my hopes aren’t rising. I honestly don’t think he will be coming, but it would be a good thing for him to be there with D.
Never forget, when the burden gets too heavy, to turn over all your pain and anger and really the whole M, to God. Let Him carry it! And don't go taking it back the next day.
Did you ever find Marianne Williamson's books on Anger or "Return to Love"? They helped me a lot with forgivness exercises. And recall that forgivness is NOT about letting your h off the hook (as your post suggests you did with others) I am referring to the type of forgiveness you give yourself, the letting go and letting God, etc
While He's carrying it, you'll get some time to rest and heal and gain some clarity. I feel for your mil. What a drag to know that her son's idiocy means she sees less of a beautfiul grandchild.
HEY IF ANY of US are in the shoes of your mil someday, and our son or daughter wants to be a walk away, let's remember how it feels to be the LBSer and HELP OUT....(OMG I'd take my boy out in the back yard and do some 'splainin'....)
When my h was living away from home for nearly 2 years, to my knowledge, his only sibling and his mother never once called to say hi to the kids unless h was here. Not once. Missed birthdays. I don't get why although ONCE I did let my bil have it. He asked how the kids were and I said "fine, no thanks to you" and he hung up. Um, that's what is called NOT being effective on my end...but why no calls before that? Maybe b/c if h wasn't here, I suppose mil was too conflict avoidant or clueless? (NEVER underestimate the ability of the WAS or their family, to seem really clueless. Not mean, or intentionally cruel, but utterly clueless and thoughtless. Seriously...)
My MIL died this past spring. Our older kids spoke at her funeral. My d21 said many good things, but she also mentioned the sad part that she did not really know her grandmother. That shocked my h and his brother. Isn't that odd? I mean, WTH? Of course she didn't know her grandmother! Somehow my h and his only sibling believed that their mother was "close" to our kids!
They were Her only grandchildren but in reality, she never did a damn thing to see them or connect with them, if it inconvenienced her. She visited us once in our home, in 19 years. The rest of the time, WE did the travelling at our expense, All 5 of us (this is before she was sick too).
MIL did not have a R with our children without her son (my h) around. Honestly, If he and I didn't reconcile & had she lived, I wonder if she'd ever have seen them. Bet not unless WE made ALL the effort. So odd. My bil came over to me at the funeral and said "you know 'mil' really LOVED the kids and would be so surprised if they didn't know that."......( I recall thinking, 'is he kidding? Why would mil be surprised?) "
It's mostly my mil's loss. Our kids have 34 first cousins on my side, as I'm from a large family and my mother and h's father, have good R's with our kids.
I hope the R with your mil and your d is a good one, for both their sakes. Maybe the R between them and your h can be separated, you know? Enjoy your low stress T-day. H is a physician and missed 9 out of 11 of our first T-days with kids. They never noticed b/c they got used to us eating on the Friday after. NO biggie. MUCH LESS stressful, that's for sure. Keep on keeping on.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Hi Zen My H also goes into 'help out' phases...I think on a subconscious level its their way of making things a little more ok than they are...the only thing they can do really..to make everyone feel a bit better....
Just before my H jetsetted off to go visit OW for first time in her country (literally he was at the airport I think)he out of the blue txted me saying how he promises hes going to buy me A telecope I've always wanted and pay for a trip overseas for me and my parents.
Huh?
Once he got back he said he didnt want to buy the telescope anymore,I asked why, he said cause he didnt think i'd ever use it...mmmm.ouch. And only mentioned the parents thing once after that saying it was up to me to organise it...but i didnt really think he wanted to do it anymore anyway, so I left it
I've been wanting a 8 inch telescope for 8 years...:( Hurt just a bit...dangling a carrot then whisking it away like that Making me feel like he cared, and then just withdrawing the offer with such a horrible reason
My H also goes into 'help out' phases...I think on a subconscious level its their way of making things a little more ok than they are...the only thing they can do really..to make everyone feel a bit better....