I've been reviewing these message boards for a couple days, as I am going through some really tough times with my wife.
I'm 33 and my W is 33, we've been married for almost 8 years, but have been together for almost 15 years. We met while in high-school but we didn't goto the same school. We met at a part-time job.
We have 3 daughters, D6, D4, D2, and a 9 year old dog. I work full-time days with a 1+ hour commute each way (this has been the case for almost 12 years) W works part time nights (although recently it's been 4 or 5 nights a week) different nights every week. Other than verbal arguments our relationship has never been abusive throughout the years - although I did threaten that I would hurt myself in the early stages of our relationship because I was imature.
Our relationship was very emotional and I was very attached in a fairly short period of time. Around the same time my W's parents were in the process of separating and it was nasty. Husband would leave and comeback, and he was abusive to his wife.
As a result my wife was forced to move out of her parents home at the age of 18. My parents in fear that I would leave and get an appartment with my W agreed hestantly to have her move into their house.
Things went well at first (apprx 2 years), I started college and my W also attempted to goto school, but it wasn't for her. I proposed to my W on a vacation, that my parents were also a part of and everyone was great, although my parents never fully approved of the relationship and my mother began to show outward disapproval of my wifes decisions and also of our relationship, she asked us to start paying rent and helping with the chores (even though she knew we were saving for deposit on a house).
I started to notice that my wife was staying out later after work (waitress position) and she started to hang around with people she worked with. I was ok with it at first, but when I accompanied her to a few work functions I noticed she had a noticable relationship with a male co-worker that got my attention. I confronted her with it, and she told me over and over that it was nothing that he was just a friend similar to other people she worked with. I went along with it, but she started to become distant and approx. a month before our wedding she contronted me and said she had gotten cold feet and that she needed some time alone and was going to move out of my parents house. Needless to say I was devestated and I pursued her like crazy, I was so full of rage and disappointment. I loved her with all of my heart and I didn't want to give up (although virtually everyone in my life said to let it go and that it was likely for the best).
Fast forward approx. 6 months, things are going horribly with this guy and my W tells me that she made a huge mistake and that all of the stress in her life and fact that I wasn't supporting her caused her to look for emotional support elsewhere. That support turned into the affair.
After talking for some time and myself still working to afford the down-payment on the house that was supposed to be ours, I suggested that we should probably goto counselling in order to work out our issues and understand if we could get back to where we used to be as a couple.
It went well, and after a month (I'm guessing because I don't remember the specific time) I had just moved out of my parents house and into my new house - and I invited my W to move in with me. We had our issues and problems (my parents, her parents) but we continued to talk and our relationship was as strong as ever.
We got re-engaged and we went South with a few friends and got married, we bought a dog and we started to talk about having children. I continued to advance at work and our first daughter was born. It was one of the most exciting times of my life, but shortly after she was born I started to get depressed because D6 didn't seem interest in me (even though she was a newborn!) and my wife was happy with her child, as result I spent a lot of time away from the house working and going out with friends. We would fight about it but it never really became a big problem.
Our 2nd daughter D4 was born, and I was much better prepared this time. Complications with breast-feeding meant that I was able to share in feeding and I felt a great bond with her. At this time my MIL also moved in with us (which actually turned out to be great), but she moved out a short time later when she met an old boyfriend. They were renting a house paying an extremely high rent in a very nice part of the city, so my wife came to me and said that we might want to consider having them move into our basement - which they did. I had mixed feelings about this at first because I barely knew the boyfriend they were paying less rent and paying it to us so it was great.
We began to talk about buying a bigger house because with 4 adults, 2 children and a large dog we had over grown our 2000 sq foot house.
We purchased a new house (to be built within a 12 month closing), and although this brought stress we had decided to have a 3rd child D2. She wasn't born until about 6 months after we moved into the new house.
We've now been in this house for almost 2.5 years, of which I thought everything was going fine.
Last Wednesday night after the kids went to bed my wife got really upset and started telling me that she wasn't happy, that she thought there had to be more to life. That I had been neglecting her, and was a very thoughtless husband and person.
There were some obvious things that I have done over the last few months that I can clearly see have caused the volcano to erupt. Last month I bought her a present for her birthday, but I didn't buy her a card. 2 months ago I went away for my brothers stag weekend (4 days) and I didn't call my wife for 3 days. I make the excuse that I don't have anytime, but it has the appearance that I don't care.
I was devestated and my immediate reaction was that there was someone else. I wasn't meeting her emotional needs, so she was getting them from somewhere else like she did in the past. She assured me that this was not case, but that she simply is not happy. I spend far to much time watching sports and surfing the internet. This is major issue, I honestly feel like I have an addiction. I have stopped going online at night and I am attempting to spend my evenings with the family completly.
I told my W that I want to work this out, that I understand I have issues I need to fix and I promise her I will work to become a better person and husband, but a part of me believes she doesn't want me to change - she hopes that I leave.
She told me last night that thinks that she may have only married me because she is guilty that she cheated on me almost 10 years ago.
She said she cares about me deeply but she won't say the L word. I'm been saying it to her constantly, and I brought her flowers the other day, and I've been doing everything I can to stay on top of house-hold chores (something which I have been very inconsistant with in the past). We do have a busy life, but I know that I'm not contributing enough.
My wife says that I am a great father and she knows that my kids need me and she doesn't want that to change. She keeps saying she needs time to think and that she is too angry with me to talk with me and just wants me to stop.
Tonight I am going to try and leave her alone, just focus on chores and my kids and present a happy face.
Just below the surface I am dying, and I just want to hold her and tell her again and again and again that I'm sorry.
I now know I just need to SHOW IT, not say...but right now she needs space and I'm going to try.
No matter what I do, no matter whether I try to hug her or kiss her or show effection it feels to me that she is going out of her way to not show any emotion towards me. I cannot remember the last time she told me she loved me.
How long should I expect to wait before she WANTS to talk to me? I have a doctors appointment schedule as I hope to schedule a councellor appointment for us.
Any advise/help would be appreated. If you want anymore information please let me know. I hope I can do this as my family is my life.
Me - 34 W - 33 M - 8 years T - 15 years D7, D5, D2 Bomb Nov 10/2010 "I'm not happy and INILWY" W Staying for the kids Mar 13/2011
Welcome to our community! How did you find us? Have you read Divorce Remedy?
If you have it....look to the Last Resort Technique...and read it. You want to stop any real pursuit, because it is pushing her away....back off a little, but don't go completely dark.
Get some help (not online) for your internet addiction...I think it's a big problem with a lot of people.
Be thoughtful with your wife without overpursuing her...what makes her happy?
Now, when things were really good between you, when you were falling in love, what were you doing?
Don't worry so much about her words or lack of words. Pay more attention to her actions.
Scared...you are not alone, and it is not too late. We are here to help you brainstorm solutions and heal your relationship.
Sorry you are here. Just in case you don't have Divorce Remedy. Here is a general guideline of Do's and Dont's. Try to follow it until you can get the book. If you do have the book then look at it as a cheat sheet for quick reference.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Here you go:
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
Thanks Dbmod, Just found the site randonly on the internet. I was originally looking for some assurance that I wasn't alone or the problems my W and I were having "normal". I immediately read a couple good articles on the main page and then I started browsing the forums.
I don't have the books, and last night when I got home I started dinner and I firmly said to my W, "I realize you need time and space and I haven't given in too you - I want to tell that I understand and I am going to give you that space. When you are ready to talk I will be here to listen". She thanked me and said she was glad I finally realized what she needed.
She then started to go into one of our biggest (throughout our entire relationship) my parents - especially my mother. I told her that I knew it was something I needed to deal with and that I was going to talk to them this week.
She in turn told me not too, because of Christmas coming up and my little brothers wedding at the end of the year - she doesn't want to make things any worse (such as my parents refuse to talk to me) or cause problems at my brothers wedding. I think she means this, but she's also said she doesn't want to see or speak to my mother at all right now and I believe my mother may want to talk to her if I went and explain my feelings and issues that have existed basically since day one.
Honestly the "internet addiction" has virtually been resolved as I'm stopped bringing my laptop home with me and we don't have another computer in the house, but obviously when I start councelling I will bring it up.
My wife loves country music, outdoors, horses, dogs, farming and she's had a life long dream to own a farm and to teach children how to ride horses and of course her children (which she keeps telling me are the most important people in her life). She has virtually no friends of any kind, other than her older sister and some of my friends wives. She used to own a horse when we dated, and we spent time regularly at the farm with her horse. She is a stubborn person by her nature likely as a condition of her family history. To be totally honest I'm not sure what makes her happy now.
When we dated we were always together, I fell hard for her (as this was both of our first real relationships - although we had both had short dates with other people previously), and we spent as much time together as we could. I was very thoughtful, always trying to surprise her with things. I would take her away for short getaways on the weekends sometimes. I bought her a promise ring, and obviously I was there for her as person to talk to when her parents were going through all their problems. We also went on a number of trips together, Mexico, Florida, Bermuda and the focus from me was obviously only on her. On the weekends we would regularly go out to bars and nightclubs with my friends, dance and drink.
When we got married, we used to spend a lot of time going hiking with our dog, going out for dinner together and just spending time together, we'd watch movies and we both worked full time. On the weekends we would regularly go out to bars and nightclubs with my friends. I believe these things made my wife happy, but I don't think she was fullfilled as we'd always talked about buying a farm, but we could never quite afford it - which always made me feel bad.
The funny thing is she told me the other day that she feels like she "never had a choice in life", but throughout our relationship she has been the driver in decisions. She picked our first house and she decided where we were going to get married - I never had an issue with this and generally feel that she always made good choices, so there was never a point to me challenging it.
I think your right about watching her actions, it's only been a few weeks but I miss the physical attention a lot (not necessarily sex) hugs, holding hands and kissing.
I believe I can save my marriage, and I know my wife has not completly given up if only for the kids. She has said numberous times that I'm not a bad person or even a bad guy, but that she's changed too.
I think backing off and giving her space will only help, but I'm not sure how "I" get through this...I get so excited and I anticipate getting home from work - only to feel crushed shortly after I walk in the door.
I'm not sure that I know how to make myself happy...andjust sitting her typing this makes me said and depressed. I cried a lot in front of her in the first couple days and numberous times I had trouble holding it together. I have some really strong feelings of hate and anger towards myself, that I haven't been able to completly shake - as I feel like this is all my fault.
Me - 34 W - 33 M - 8 years T - 15 years D7, D5, D2 Bomb Nov 10/2010 "I'm not happy and INILWY" W Staying for the kids Mar 13/2011
I am sorry I am here, and I'm sorry for you as well. Thank you for the guidelines. I think in the first few days especially I DID everyone of the DON'TS...
I must have lasting self-esteem issues and self-confidence. Although some it is finally being "smacked in the face" and having a awaking to the problems. I was oblivious for years, and the "hints and signs" that my W was giving me didn't register with me.
Now I know, and I understand I have a number of things I HAVE to FIX:
1) I need to find my own happiness (if it's possible) 2) I need to focus on what's important (kids, wife, work, friends) 3) I need to address the existing issues with my parents. 4) I need to learn to be a more thoughtful and caring person. 5) I need to be confident and self assured.
I'm really scared though, I don't want to lose my wife and I don't want to seperate. I love her with every bit of my heart - and I feel physically ill when I think about the fact that she may no longer love me or want to be with me.
Me - 34 W - 33 M - 8 years T - 15 years D7, D5, D2 Bomb Nov 10/2010 "I'm not happy and INILWY" W Staying for the kids Mar 13/2011
I also meant to mention that the topic of our 8th Anniversary came up...and I told my wife that I was trying to plan a short getaway - to which she told me we could just go out for dinner. So I'm not exactly sure what that means.
She also commented during the evening (as we went out with the kids). Has everyone noticed something different with Dad? To which she followed with "He is speaking with a nicer tone".
So at times I feel like even the small changes I am making for myself are having some positive effect.
Tonight is our last night home together, my W is working the next 4 straight nights.
It hurts so much...
Me - 34 W - 33 M - 8 years T - 15 years D7, D5, D2 Bomb Nov 10/2010 "I'm not happy and INILWY" W Staying for the kids Mar 13/2011
I must have lasting self-esteem issues and self-confidence. Although some it is finally being "smacked in the face" and having a awaking to the problems. I was oblivious for years, and the "hints and signs" that my W was giving me didn't register with me.
Now I know, and I understand I have a number of things I HAVE to FIX:
1) I need to find my own happiness (if it's possible)
3) I need to address the existing issues with my parents.
5) I need to be confident and self assured.
I'm really scared though
Scared,
Sounds like you have identified some major issues for yourself. Admitting your scared means to me that your self worth MIGHT be based on your Wife staying with you. Not entirely a problem, but fear of something can create bad behavior/tendencies that can sabotage even the hardest of self work.
You definitely need to read Divorce Remedy and maybe even DB.
You seem very serious about changing yourself and that is the major step here. On your list, #1, #3, and #5 stands out to me, because I suffer from similar issues. I found one book to be an absolute eye opener to these issues for me and really helped me to be "Aware" of where these issues came from.
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I'm really scared though, I don't want to lose my wife and I don't want to seperate. I love her with every bit of my heart - and I feel physically ill when I think about the fact that she may no longer love me or want to be with me.
SIC,
First thing, read the DB and DR books, they will open your eyes immensely and give you an understanding of what MWD teaches. Until you can procure them, I believe the first chapters are still here in the resources. ( link someone ? not too good with the links ...)
Secondly, your list is a good one, although you are questioning the possibility of that happening. And you will never reach them if you keep looking behind you. Strive for them each and every day.
Slow down and breathe for now. Your fears....are just that ......fears.
Each and every fear inside of ourselves has the capability to be overcome.
Conquer and divide what you really fear into small capable steps that YOU can take on your own. Your largest fear has already stared you down, and you are still vertical, and pumping air, everything else can be overcome.
Keeping your list in mind, what are some things you can do to achieve success on that level ?
Just delete my whole post. You took it out of context. That is NOT YOUR RIGHT. If you don't like my post DELETE ALL OF IT!
Nothing wrong with telling someone about self help. The book I suggested is nothing different than if I tell someone to go see an IC. In fact it's a hell of a lot cheaper.
I understand policy, but there is nothing wrong with steering someone to better themselves. DR/DB works for the relationship changes, but there are issues that need to be addressed outside of DB for HIM.
My DB Coach gave me a website link and also agreed with me reading the "Book" you just censored. Are you going to delete it if she posted it?
Dbmod dig deep and see if what you are doing is really working
Hang in there scared, you are not alone. I'm going through the same feelings and emotional rollercoaster. Work on your DB techniques and do things you enjoy.
Me 53 XW 50 M 18 Years +2 S14 D19 Bomb 10-24-10 Served 1-27-11 Mediate 4-21-11 Civil D Final 6-2-11 No church anullment "A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits."
