I just found this page today, and it gave me a smile (the hope shown, the shared troubles). My issues have been going on for a while. In brief:
- Wife had an affair from 9/08 - 2/09. We almost divorced from it, but got through. I had 180'd on my own, and some other lucky breaks occurred. - Reconciliation was wonderful, we laughed, dated, were very close, etc. - The entire time we had 1 thorn, a male friend she had gotten advice from during the separation. I was concerned about the friendship, and kept asking her to make it more appropriate (they were texting an awful lot, and very personally). I even said, “If you’re not careful, you’ll end up in love with him.” She vowed to be more appropriate, but instead started hiding her conversations using techno tricks (secret accounts, spoofed names) - Now she tells me that she is in love with HIM. She has also feels that we do need a divorce after all. She swears that it is not about him, just about us. I have trouble believing this. - We’ve been in this deteriorating state for a few weeks. First, she admitted to talking to him secretly (when I caught it), but swore it was light flirting, nothing more. We were going to save the marriage, but I was conflicted about trusting AGAIN. Then she admitted to having feelings for him- she pulled away from me a bit, but swore she would try as long as I would. Last week she admitted that they have told each other they love each other; she and I fought and she’s been on the couch since 11/11. - We’ve talked a little, but she’s saying that the marriage has been about “keeping pretenses” for years, and she doesn’t know the last time she felt anything for me. She says that I’m controlling, manipulative, etc etc etc. (I find this off base considering she controls our finances and calendars…I feel that I always try to talk to her for input on the decisions I make.)
This level of hatred from someone I’ve shared so much with hurts so badly.
I’m trying to turn a corner and work on myself (again). I can’t help but feel such deep loss, especially when I think of the children, the happiness of our reconciliation period, her family (that I love), and so on.
I'm sorry this has happened again. We're here to help you find some solutions and to support you. I'd like to encourage you to post in Newcomers....you will get more and more varied responses.
Have you read Divorce Remedy? You seem to know about the '180'.
First, stop having relationship talks...especially 'status' type talks. They are taking you on a downward spiral, and it just gives her more chances to speak about finances. If you find yourself in a talk anyway....dig deeper about findin out why she thinks you're manipulative and controlling...but just listen...don't argue or give any defense. Just try to understand.
The 180s you made before....Did you continue those? What were they?
I 180’d in several ways: - got more exercise, I prefer to be active anyway, but married life can leave you so little time - stopped fighting, identified my problems and apologized for them- incredibly hard in the midst of your spouse’s affair. This was so opposite my normal prideful self, it really surprised both of us - really focused on my faith, and spent a lot of time in prayer - increased my own social circle by reconnecting with old friends, etc
I’d say that some of the changes lasted and some didn’t. Any way you slice it, the marriage and kids will take up so much of your rime that it’s hard to do what you want, and you need to sacrifice some of the social and active things for being responsible around the house.
I’m trying to avoid “talks”, but 2 nights ago, she initiated. I asked as gently as possible what I manipulated, how I am so controlling. Answer: “just everything….like the bedroom, I’ve wanted to paint it for years, but you keep saying we should get out of debt first”. This to me seems like the way 2 adults should talk…
I truly feel like I have very little control, and tried to talk about things as much as possible, rather than just push my decisions. She handles all of the bill paying, and plans all of the vacations for example. I noted that we never vacation where I want, and she responded similar to my “paint the bedroom” response: “We discuss it and reach a decision together, how is that manipulative?” Agreed.
After reading here yesterday morning, I tried being in less contact during day yesterday. It went OK but was hard. She seemed to have more of a smile for me when I got home, had cooked some supper, made brownies. We watched TV together without fighting. On the other hand, she commented on the kids’ growing resilience (prepping for breaking it to them), brought up R talk herself, and said she didn’t want to make any rash moves but was still pretty sure that she needs out.
I don’t want to always talk, but wish I could get her to read a few of these posts, especially the first chapter of Michelle’s book. I feel like I should “strike while the iron is hot” since she is moving slightly in the right direction, but I understand and appreciate the value of backing off.
Its funny. I think she really struggles to say what she means. Complaints I've heard: - pick on her too much (I think I'm funny, and tease a little) - spend too much time with friends - not affectionate enough - controlling - manipulative - emotionally cruel
I could write a book defending myself, but I have been very introspective, and really feel many of these are off base. Things that sting that she HASN'T said: - No fun anymore - lost touch with friends/ never do anything - wimpy/ doormat (I'm very much "sure, whatever you want" on any of the small stuff) - not as physically attractive (went very bald, weight is OK but not as in shape as when we met)
I don't want to ignore what she says, but do feel that she is missing her own issues, or maybe doesn't know how to state them.
2 thoughts: One, she keeps saying that I’m controlling, so I am mulling that one. I think she means that I try to control by words, and have little actual control. I really am the doormat here. We live in her town, go to her church, I’m driving her old minivan and she’s got the new car we just bought. I really care very little about a lot of the small stuff, so I probably am wishy washy on it. “I don’t know where do you want to eat…”, that kind of thing. Last night, rather than waste a lot of words on what to do for supper, I just asked if she had a plan. When she didn’t, I said I was bringing home subs…being more decisive. I know this may seem like I’m being MORE controlling, but I truly feel that I am not the controlling one here.
If anything, maybe she is feeling that my doormat nature “controls” in that it makes her decide everything, or something. I’m just hoping to get through this storm, and then really address “control” in therapy- hopefully after divorce is off the table. It’s her #1 issue, so I can’t ignore, but she can’t give me great examples.
Second, I am working on the parts of myself that I miss, assuming she may miss them, too. Increasing my social circle again and getting more exercise. When we met, I had a bunch of friends and an active schedule with them. I also was more physically active. Those things naturally slip when you have a home and children to spend time with…and of course I’ll choose some alone time with my wife over beers with some sweaty guy every time. It got very easy for those things to slip, but it clearly adds to my “doormat” vibe.
I think my overall problem is that she just has trouble staying faithful. This is at least her third episode of misconduct (chatting nasty with strangers on the internet 8 years ago, a 6 month PA 2 years ago, and now an EA that she swears hasn’t gone PA yet). It all seems to be based on the fantasy of the new and unknown, and the ability to pretend there will never be consequences. If we get past it, we need some deep therapy there. She has already started some on her own, but it has made things worse at the outset- her therapist seems pro-divorce, and is getting a very warped view of me as a dominating ogre.
I do feel like a doormat. It is a little who I am.
When I say doormat, its like this: "let's watch what you want", "I can do this, you have a seat", "I don't care, what do you want to do".
In the moment, I feel like I'm being polite, or being the gentleman for a lady, or showing an act of service for someone I love. She certainly does things in return, and most of the time the scale is close to balance. I fail to notice when it gets out of balance, or try to go further when I get a bad vibe from her. Bottom line, she's really cute, and I'll wash dishes to get lucky tomight, every time.
Regarding her therapy, I know it is up to her. She is currently in therapy, and dredging deep (rape in her past, possibly bipolar). I feel like I can't have a problem that isn't hers, and vice versa- so I would like to work through this with her. Of course it needs to be on her timetable, but we should get back to us, then see when/if she wants my help.
Update: She said in MC that she wouldn't have married me if she could do it over. The whole session was aimed at me and that was the last straw. I stormed out and walked home. She later told me she's looking at places to move out, but that she hasn't decided for sure if she wants to. Then came to bed intead of sleeping on the couch. Go figure.
