feel love thumping at the doors of my heart again

[flowmom]

So do you still get much personal time while juggling a lover? That is my latest concern...mothering, being a girlfriend, working and still having some time to self.

I have a long way to go to find balance. Interestingly though, my counselor is encouraging me to make space in my life for this relationship. She says that not meeting the needs that this relationship is meeting will undermine my life in other areas. It's a different perspective because I've been feeling like I've been "stealing" time/energy to "indulge" myself by spending time with Guitarist. She gave me credit for knowing what I need and pursuing it. Obviously I still need to up my earning and she is continuing to try to help me with that, but she wants me to look at the time cultivating a new relationship as positive and worth making time/space for.

Basically, where there's a will, there's a way .

Some of the time that I've spent with Guitarist is when my children are at home -- he comes after they go to bed and leaves in the wee hours. So I am not completely reliant on childcare/fathercare time to spend time with Guitarist.

Also, a guy with his own children will be busy too. Both M and Guitarist were very understanding about my time limitations, and glad to be with someone in the same situation as them schedule-wise.

[flowmom]

Yesterday, my counselor encouraged me to open up more to Guitarist. We talked about how it's my style to want to be hyper-independent and not show my vulnerability. I always want be "low maintenance" in a relationship...but she pointed out that "low maintenance" is not how I live my life.

I've had some brutal days lately where I was crying etc. (rare for me lately). I mentioned having a "hard day" to Guitarist in a very matter of fact way, but not really in a way that invited support.

I think there might be a communication block between us. I'm not sure that Guitarist wants to "go there" in terms of going deeper with sharing who we are. He is very upbeat and focused on gratitude and the positive. I admire that so much, especially knowing that he works with addicts and mental health patients. But how he is with me makes me wonder if there is a wall there in terms of what we can share. I know some of what he went through in his marriage and he definitely showed that he went through some pain, but he never makes a negative comment about anything happening in his life currently...and I guess I have trouble believing that his super challenging job, brutal schedule, and spending little time with his children is all peachy for him.

I know he wants us to be friends and lovers. With my friends though, I am real. I don't sugarcoat things or put on a face, and I feel frustrated when friends do. I guess that's where I'm at with Guitarist. I don't know if I can "be real" with him, because I'm not convinced he is "being real" with me. I have some curiousity about his inner life and what makes him tick...but I'm not sure that he feels that way about me.

I guess the tricky thing is that we are at a point in our relationship where I need to risk being more "me". And risk rejection...even invite it, because I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want the real me.

That was a mistake I made with stbxh...not showing my needs and my vulnerability or asking for support. That worked fine for a long time...until the rough patches when I couldn't bury my needs or be self-sufficient. He was never able to be there for me and always responded by withdrawing. Maybe if I had been more real with him in the beginning, he would have been turned off and I would have had to deal with the painful rejection of that...but then have been free to build a life and family with a man who was willing to embrace me, including my vulnerabilities.

[flowmom]

Had a weird dream last night where stbx, my children, and I moved as a family to an old neighbourhood of my old home city. It was so strange to relive the shared excitement of a new adventure with him again, if only in a dream. We had a big old house with a big forested yard on the edge of rock bluffs leading down to the water...a fantasy. We were interested in exploring the neighbourhood. We talked about how there were so many rooms in the house, enough rooms for every purpose. Togetherness. I miss it.

STBXH called me out on sounding exasperated on the phone this morning. We've been having issues with S7 attending his weekly class...he is having a rough time with it. STBX and I were talking about it and it became apparent that he had no idea what the names of his teachers are. This is the THIRD year that S7 has had those teachers and STBXH frequently takes them there!! Both teachers have emailed both of us more than once within the last week. How hard is it?? This is so typical that these kinds of details are apparently below STBXH's notice, even though he wants to have full input on all decision-making on how to deal with problems like this.

Last night I feel asleep fully clothed in S7's bed at 8 PM. Third time in the last week. Something feels out of whack in my body. This morning my stomach feels upset (unusual for me). I'm feeling really anxious.

Seeing Guitarist tonight and looking forward to that, but wishing I could be more relaxed. Haven't seen him in 6 days...feels like a long time.

Missing getting input on my thread. I guess many have defected. Thanks Newmama and Lotus for chiming in, I really appreciate it. Smart Sister is out of the country for a month and I miss our daily phone calls.

[lea74]

Flowmom, the last paragraph of this has really struck me. I think I may have been in the same position. I am not sure I was ever 'real' with XH, well at least not in the last few years. I always felt so judged for how I felt or for what I needed. Maybe if I had not been so defensive all the time, but rather just said this is me, this is what I need, can you be there for me.

It has given me food for thought.

[flowmom]

Yes Lea, it's really making me think that it's our job to be real and actively turn off people who don't resonate with the real us.

[newmama]

FM- about people not commenting(your old followers) it is worth reminding them in Newcomers that you have traveled here! In Newcomers, the threads move so quickly that it's easy to get buried. Plus, your activity slowed down a lot for awhile there.
Just throwing in my 2 cents- go back to your old thread and remind them you are here

As for your hunch regarding Guitarist:

I think there might be a communication block between us. I'm not sure that Guitarist wants to "go there" in terms of going deeper with sharing who we are. He is very upbeat and focused on gratitude and the positive. I admire that so much, especially knowing that he works with addicts and mental health patients.

There could be a survival mechanism in there somewhere...my gut tells me that it makes sense for people dealing with others' very hard, sad lives have to distance themselves from it somehow in order to be productive. Suppose he has an automatic "everything is great!" front going on as a result.

But how he is with me makes me wonder if there is a wall there in terms of what we can share. I know some of what he went through in his marriage and he definitely showed that he went through some pain, but he never makes a negative comment about anything happening in his life currently...and I guess I have trouble believing that his super challenging job, brutal schedule, and spending little time with his children is all peachy for him.

yep, my theory may still apply. PLUS...this is the sucky part (for all of us LBS) old habits may be hard to break. In other words, what if he was a conflict avoider or didn't open up much in his marriage. There could be the chance that he has carried this way of relating with him to other relationships.

I know he wants us to be friends and lovers. With my friends though, I am real. I don't sugarcoat things or put on a face, and I feel frustrated when friends do. I guess that's where I'm at with Guitarist. I don't know if I can "be real" with him, because I'm not convinced he is "being real" with me. I have some curiousity about his inner life and what makes him tick...but I'm not sure that he feels that way about me.

But let me ask you this--how long did it take for you to be real with your friends and open up to them? You have been dating Guitarist for how long? So not to discount your feeling because we LBSs have learned to trust our gut, but to maybe relax a tad on your expectations from Guitarist at this very very early stage of your relationship.

I am impressed that you are able to articulate and pinpoint your feelings of angst, though!

So you want him to say "FM, damn, I had a hell of a day today.Let me tell you..." or "I don't feel like I was being a good dad this week" or what?

just trying to clarify

[flowmom]

Thanks for listening and replying newmama

FM- about people not commenting(your old followers) it is worth reminding them in Newcomers that you have traveled here!

Unfortunately my old thread got suddenly locked so I wasn't able to redirect.

There could be a survival mechanism in there somewhere...my gut tells me that it makes sense for people dealing with others' very hard, sad lives have to distance themselves from it somehow in order to be productive. Suppose he has an automatic "everything is great!" front going on as a result.

That is very perceptive newmama, very good point. You just can't do a job like that without developing protective mechanisms, and that makes sense.

yep, my theory may still apply. PLUS...this is the sucky part (for all of us LBS) old habits may be hard to break. In other words, what if he was a conflict avoider or didn't open up much in his marriage. There could be the chance that he has carried this way of relating with him to other relationships.

More good points. And you know what? I think he was a conflict avoider. I think he was pretty unhappy/alone in his M (like I was) but like me he was not the one to initiate the separation.

But let me ask you this--how long did it take for you to be real with your friends and open up to them? You have been dating Guitarist for how long?

How did you get to be so smart newmama?? Seriously you are giving me great input here. The answer is -- years! Two of my dearest friends are people who I knew for years but interacted with on a pretty superficial level before we really connected and we got to know one another on a deeper level, even though none of us are particularly shy or private. It's like there was a wall that had to be broken through before real sharing was possible. I am forgetting what that process looked like in some cases. I have also experienced "instant intimacy", and I guess that's what I'm comparing to, which isn't really fair because "instant intimacy" can be shallow in reality. I have been dating Guitarist for just over 3 months. That is not very long and I need to respect the natural pacing of what is going on. Just breathe and enjoy

So you want him to say "FM, damn, I had a hell of a day today.Let me tell you..." or "I don't feel like I was being a good dad this week" or what?

I guess so. SOMETHING that shows that he is aware of and in touch with the Dark Side. Because I have trouble trusting people who can't express that they know the Dark Side. Does that make sense?

Thanks so much. So helpful.

[newmama]

Unfortunately my old thread got suddenly locked so I wasn't able to redirect.

FM- you had so many followers so it is worth posting on FB OR starting a new thread in the newcomers just stating that you moved! Sorry,I don't mean to be pushy, and you know how much I like to write on your thread but you should still get the perspective of your old DB pals,too! Know what I mean?

How did you get to be so smart newmama?? Seriously you are giving me great input here. The answer is -- years!

Well heck, I put in all of those frequent dater miles! Seriously. (just not good at predicting if they will cheat I guess!)

Oh and I understand personally about the difficulty of breaking down walls and building intimacy with friends. Again, I think having a boyfriend will be tough when we leave a marriage where we got to know our spouse really well and were intimate (you know- we developed that until it stopped) and then it's going back to the drawing board with dating. You know?

It's like we LBSs may want to "pick up where we left off" with our exes. The intimacy is the best thing in the world and the beginning stages of dating can be kind of painful when you aren't in bed. Just my experience.

Glad to hear you are going to work on just "going with the Flow!" har har, love to say that, FM!

oh and conflict avoiders aren't bad people, right? Just a bad habit or whathaveyou that is hard to undo!

[v1olin]

When I dated the very nice girl from my divorce group we had already talked about very deep subjects. She knew all about my fight for my marriage, my legal battle, my then stbxw, my views as a father, and it made me attractive to her. huh? All my baggage was attractive to her? Not exactly, but women do seem to really NEED this type of interaction from men. My XW and I were both conflict avoiders! I have learned these new communication skills since the bomb. When I read what you say about guitarist I hear a guy that has had it with hard times. He just wants to have fun and hang out with a beautiful woman. He may not know that you need him to listen to you when you are down. If you let him go too long without letting him know your "dark side" it will become harder for him to open up. This is all my opinion though!

I cruised along for years in my marriage thinking things were ok, not great, but ok. Until the day of the bomb. I was not a mind reader and neither is he. I think I am babbling now.

[flowmom]

The intimacy is the best thing in the world and the beginning stages of dating can be kind of painful when you aren't in bed. Just my experience.

OK, it's helpful to have this perspective. I guess I am recalibrating my expectations right now. Before I started seeing stbxh 18 years ago, I was living with a boyfriend of 2 years! So I just don't have much experience with this stage. And with busy schedules it's not possible to "fast forward" as I probably did in my early 20s...not to mention both of us having more baggage and more "at stake".

Glad to hear you are going to work on just "going with the Flow!" har har, love to say that, FM!

LOL! :p

You know, I've been thinking of things that Guitarist said last night and I'm thinking that some of what is going on is him not trusting me and wanting to manage the image I have of him:

1. he was rambling about some jazz songs that we were listening to and then worried aloud that he was boring me (not!)

2. then he was wondering aloud if I was just playing jazz to please him (not!)

3. then he was talking about something he did for his wife that he labelled "soppy romantic" -- worried that I would see it that way?

I'm starting to think that it is hard for him to fully relax and be himself with me. I guess that will take time. I think he is watching me to see if I am sincere and how I react to things. I tell him that I'm pretty straightforward, and he agrees but doesn't seem to trust it.