What's da haps, man?

[whatisis]

Sol, sorry about your mom! I hope she mends quickly.
As for STBX, stay clear of him. I can't help but wonder whether this jealousy etc is based on getting some sort of D settlement out of you. He uses your feelings, knowing you don't want a D, and tries to manipulate you. I could be wrong but that's the feeling I have with this. If he wants you than let him drop the D, that would be proof he's serious. Otherwise, the heck with him!

[CityGirl]

This level of manipulation is sick.

If your H is wondering if your new friend is "better" then he is still very vested in the false ideal that one person can provide happiness to another.

As with many of the WAS (and it seems to be the husbands that walk away and do this) he would like you to think he MAY have worked things out had you just done one thing different. It's all BS.

Your H is a very, very guilty man and the way he communicates with you clearly spells it out. As long as you he can dump everything on you.... how "wrong" you are then he lets himself off the hook.

My H and your H are very unhappy people. That is not mind reading it is fact. Nobody in their right mind constantly texts their soon to be ex wife (in the midst of a court battle) with all this BS because they are content. We should not even be blips on their radar since they are SO happy but somehow every few days we both are.

I am so tired of men that talk. Action is the only thing I will consider responding to and the action must have my comfort and security in mind 110%. Talking is for wimps. Nobody in the midst of a divorce keeps TALKING about what they hope or want and not do a thing about it. It's all hot air and a very abusive form of manipulation. You want a divorce then BE GONE and STAY GONE. Simple.

I don't want to hear about anybody being "worn down" or "confused" or "scared" or who has what "missing" from their life. Man up and make a change or go text somebody that is interested in your endless BS and talking. If men only knew how stupid the sound when they talk, talk and talk some more yet keep doing things the same way. Lame. Boring. Disgusting.

Trust me - the longer this goes on the worse it gets. One can only change their e-mail address and block texts and calls for so long. I am tired of it and I think you are too.

I hope your mom is okay.

[ImprovedRomeo]

Sol, sorry about your mom I hope she feels better soon!

You know I love you so I'll drop a 2x4 on you. Don't stay over at HG's, period. You're not ready to go there and it's only a matter of time that it will happen if you end up at his place with a few extra drinks in you. Not that there's anything wrong with it between two consenting adults but you're not fully over your H yet and therefore you'll end up hurting yourself. Your H's reaction is understandable. BTW, I have no clue how he could even find out about it? Like what friend would tell on you like that? He probably knows it's HG too?

As for his reaction, I'm sure he was hurt a little once he heard about it because it was the first hit for him. You're probably thinking well why does he care if he wants the D? I wish I could answer that but I know it affects them too especially if they're not in a relationship. Some are better at hiding or reasoning with it than others. However, this will help him ease his own guilt. He's going to make this a big deal and will believe that you slept with someone just to sooth his own guilty conscience. I do believe all these WASs have bouts where they feel they made a mistake, the more you go dark on them, the more they feel it so that's one reason for why he says all these things. You can't just be with someone for so long and so intimately to just go on without thinking about it. Of course, they're quick to replace those thoughts with how bad things were and why it was still a good decision blah blah. The other reason is what wii mentioned i.e. to manipulate you for his benefit, we all know he's done that before too.

So I'll ask the same question as I have before- what do you want? Do you want H? If yes (to me it's obvious but I don't know if you've thought about it like whether you can trust him again or start a family with him etc) then he needs to know there will be no 'us' after D and that you'll probably move out of town too. So he needs to pick one or the other. If you don't want him tell him you don't want any more discussions about 'us'. He made his choice and now you've made yours too so let's get the D done and go on our merry way.

Focus on school, have platonic fun with with HG. Hang out with other friends, life's full of fun and exciting things. Take this time to enjoy some of them because sooner or later you'll be in a serious relationship and probably start a family. Enjoy your freedom while you have it

[soleil]

Thank you for all your kind thoughts about my mom. She is doing better and should be released tomorrow. It was very scary. We are pretty close so I was freaking out. Love you guys!

You all make valid points. The thing is that

Your H is a very, very guilty man and the way he communicates with you clearly spells it out.

Action is the only thing I will consider responding to and the action must have my comfort and security in mind 110%.

Both of thse comments resonated with me. I do see the similarites in our stbx's, CG. It is very confusing to me to hear one thing and yet see something totally different (action-wise). How can he say I am the only one for him, that marriage should only happen one time and be divorcing me? It makes nooo sense.


IR, I lurve you, too I appreciate the 2x4. My friends didn't sell me out. They just happened to be where stbx was and it prob triggered his mind and maybe he went driving looking for me late at night? Didn't see my car so he assumed the worst. He does not know HG at all. And I did not want to lie to him. So while I didn't go into details confirming or denying I did tell him the bare minimum, and that yes, I've been out w/ a dude recently. As for HG, I am confused how to handle this cause I feel myself liking him yet I don't want to rush anything and well, I think I've been pretty good about it. Advice on how to handle that with him? I dont want to stop hanging with him yet I get where you are coming from.

What do I want? I want for my M to be a success and keep going but I can't find stbx on that. He has made iet clear ovcer and over again, even with this latest thing, that he does NOT want to be married and that it is the ONLY solution. Even as he's upset about me hanging w/ another dude.

It's awful.

I will write some more. GOnna grab a bite to eat quickly....

[CityGirl]

Sol - yes, obviously you need to decide what you want exactly.

But the reality is it's not only up to you. And if your H wanted to work on things the divorce would be dropped (or put on hold) and he would not be blasting you over text messages. He would clean up his act and make a plan to see if you will even CONSIDER having him back on *any* level.

Your H is not detached from you therefore any exchange you have with him feeds his attachment. Your H, my H... they have not detached. All they have done is filed for divorce and put new people in their bed. That is easy... *anybody* can do that.

So really, it doesn't matter what you want (I mean, of course it matters) but your H has to want the same and his actions say he doesn't want it. What he does want (if I had to guess so shame on me for mind reading) is to know you will always be there and around when he is bored or drunk enough to contact you. He wants to know you are always an available option to him even if just for some "back and forth". You are probably one of the few stable things in his life.

It's a hard place to be when the H that left keeps picking and picking at you yet everything stays the same UNLESS he *feels* something different in the moment. But all of *this* isn't about moments.

And there is a very good chance your H will never sort all of this out. So that leaves you with the decision making power - keep up *this* with your H (not something I recommend based on my own ongoing experience) or really just remove him totally.

He knows you are an option and it seems to me he likes being able to shoot you down when you let him know what your desires are. Then you feel destroyed and he knows it's still very much about him. Of course when this is all happening it not easy to think this way (um, HELLO!)

I really do feel for you because I can relate to all of this on just about every level you can imagine. It makes things very, very confusing and can take you off a path in no time flat.

[soleil]

also I am questioning what is wrong with me, loving someone who clearly doesn't love me enough to be married to me. That is so sad.

[CityGirl]

There is nothing wrong with you.

I am not sure it's about "loving" somebody enough. Some people just don't want to deal with the responsibility of marriage. And I don't mean paying the bills and junk like that (of course that is important). But marriage requires work and constant evolution and self examination in a R is foreign to many people.

Once we start learning it is easy to see how things can be "fixed" or how they can change. I sort of think that alone fuels the feeling of love because things are more clear. But they are only clear on on end (yours).

It is sad, I know. But I doubt it's about loving you enough. It really is more about him and what he chooses not to do because of his choice not to self examine. It's just too much for some people and I think both of our H's fit in the category.

[ImprovedRomeo]

Sol, the reason I keep asking you what *you* want is two fold:

1. It's important to know what you want before you can take appropriate actions. You can't be on a journey without a destination or you'll never get there.

2. Every day things change, circumstances change, minds change and hearts change. It's good to self-evaluate and see if you still desire what you did 6 months ago or even 6 weeks ago.

Now getting what you want is entirely a different topic, sure on the surface it's hopeless when it requires two people to want the M to work yet only one wants it to work but the other doesn't. However, it's the core priciple of DB i.e. one person making the needed changes to increase your chances of saving a M. The success rate is not important- we do it because we believe in it. I think RockerHerWorld is a great recent example, she gave it her best and finally got to a place where she knew she'd truly given it all she had but it didn't work. Guess what? now her H wants to reconcile and she doesn't. Even if her H didn't want to reconcile she got to the place where she was at peace with her efforts and the outcome.

When I see your H getting emotional I see a window of opportunity to have a limited discussion in a manner that would allow you to get closer to your goal. Especially in his moment of weakness you have to be the calm, cool and in-control and say the things that will have the most impact. If nothing comes of it, you lost nothing. Based on your last two text exchanges I think your H has this notion that even after M you'll be his friend or friend with benefits even. Why does he want that? It's because he feels comfortable with/around you, you've been his best friend and he no longer has that. So you need to break it down for him and snap him back to reality "H, there is no us after the D. I will likely be moving out of state after the D". And because he thinks he will have access to you even after the D this is also why it upset him about HG.

As for what's wrong with you for loving him so much when he doesn't? There's noting wrong with you...it's simple human nature to want what you don't/can't have and not appreciate what you do have. That's part of it. A lot of what we miss is not so much the person but the feeling they gave us, we trusted them with our deepest thoughts and we don't have that anymore. So those feelings of love are missing right now. Every child is born with a need for love. We're not solitary creatures, most of us have love in various forms (parents, siblings, friends) but we desire the companionship that we don't get from the other types of relationships. It's more than just a physical want. You miss H because he fulfilled that for you. However, you will again in the future. In the meantime you'll learn to acknowledge these feelings and thoughts and move on.

As for HG, again goes back to what you want and if any progress with HG gets you closer to your end goal or not. I think until you can truly get up one day and with 90% certainty say to yourself 'I don't want H anymore even if he comes crying' I think it's best to not rush things with HG. It sure will complicate things a lot. Let me give you a far fetched example. Say you and HG move on to the next phase and your H says he wants to reconcile...that wouldn't be a good thing! Here you are getting what you've been wanting all along yet your H doesn't know where you are with HG. Again, if that is what you want. If you don't want H then who cares? As far as how to handle it? enjoy building a friendly R with him, keep things in a public setting, don't talk relationships with him etc. Tell him you can't go any further until the D is final. Come on, I thought you girls are a natural at keeping us guys at an arm's length If you can't then it's ok to recognize it and put it on hold until you're ready. See HG is a double edged sword, he can help you detach from H when you redirect your emotional energy from H to HG but if you still deeply desire H then it could turn out badly.

[CityGirl]

Sol - your H is an emotional abuser. You must follow a much different path and use a much different set of tools when you are dealing with an emotional abuser (see bobbijo and go read my threads again from the start). Also see Mystik's threads.

When you have been emotionally abused (and you have been in a very real way) and it continues it is a much different set of circumstances than the "norm" of a "bad" WAS and until you find a way to deal with the abuse no DB principle will work. At all.

Being abused is a very, very real thing and it takes a very real understanding to plow through. And that level of understanding is a long road and best traveled with somebody skillful in emotional abuse. Having been on the receiving end of emotional abuse I can tell you that as a fact. Your H dose not miss you nor does he want you to be his W... he wants to know he still has the upper hand and will torture you to get his point across. This isn't the first time he has done this and it won't be the last.

It has nothing to do with what you want or what your H wants. You can "change" and be the stable one with every ounce of your being but that won't do a thing when it comes to an emotional abuser. There is not a tactic in the world that works when it comes to an emotional abuser. It does not happen until the abuser realizes they are abusive and that day may never come.

Being up against an emotional abuser is not something I would wish on anybody. And finally accepting the fact that you are married to an emotional abuser is NOT an easy thing to do.

This is a very, very serious issue though and it really should be treated as such. You don't have to listen to me or anybody else on this forum but it may be worth some consideration. All the 180's and GAL's are fine but healing from abuse requires more.

Healing from emotional abuse is not easy. There are a few people on this forum who are in straight up emotionally abusive situations and I do think you are one of them.

I'm not going to say anything more about it because it is much easier to hear other things because the reality is pretty damn scary. I hope it all works out for you but please know that you are not the problem here and until your H realizes he has a problem NOTHING will work on him.

I would gently suggest you do some reading on emotional abuse and attempt to really understand the basic concepts. Once you do (it's not easy, trust me) you will see why "normal" concepts don't work on emotional abusers. And you will see why you react the way you do as one who has been abused.

It is scary as hell but once you do sort of see the patterns you will, on an intellectual level, understand things much better and why so much of this is moot until the root problem is uncovered.

It's really sad and not a term I would toss around lightly but in some cases it's crystal clear. And it hurts no less than a fist in your face.

But this is not up for debate. At least on my end. There are too many very, very serious issues that happen on this forum that don't get the attention they deserve... instead the basics are just restated. And some of this is WAY beyond the basics.

This is no game. It's not about reconciling or your new friend. All of that is secondary. The primary is you exposing yourself to further harm from your H.

[ImprovedRomeo]

All the WASs are emotional and verbal abusers to some extent. Heck I was accused of being an emotional abuser by STBXW and perhaps in my desperation I did say some things that could be viewed as such but I said them with a different intent altogether. Everyone's situation is different and only we (should) know what our spouses are like and perhaps CG is right here and I'm wrong. However, from what I know about your H, CG's H or BBJ's H, while there maybe some similarities I don't think they're even in the same category as your H. For one thing your H doesn't spew this type of sh*t while being in very commited relationships. Two, your H only starts with this when you engage him. He was quiet for a while until you texted him after your court date. I'm not saying what you did was wrong etc but just pointing out that your texting became the catalyst for him to share his 'thoughts' with you.

However, most of the WASs do manipulate the situation, play the victim, make it all your fault etc. They also like to know we're available as a fall back option even though they know we're no longer their first choice. Yes pretty basic stuff but important to understand in order to evaluate your situation before you go looking for PhDs and industry leading experts to get help.

BTW, when CG and I disagree it's a war but as a benefit you get two different point of views to choose from. Thankfully though CG and I can have our extreme differences and still love eachother, right CG?