You make your own path as you step...

[RMC]

Hi Opt.
I have been told to visit your thread because we have things in common. After reading where you are with your H I see that you have doubts after so many lies, but your trying so hard to be optomistic (Hmmm. I see the correlation!)
You have agreat attitude about him taking this trip.
If you want, read up on my thread and see where I am in all this mess.
I will go back and read more of your sitch also.
Don't worry, we'll all be here for you-you can take that to the bank! Rachael

[RMC]

Hi Opt.,
I went back and read your whole thread to get an understanding of where you are in all this.
Seems to me we're pretty much on the same page.(sigh)
My H had a long term affair. When I found out, he came back home and I was still so totally freaked out by the betrayal that I was probably the most insecure person on the earth. Not very attractive, but hey, I had alot of emotions to work through and major anxiety got in the way of me really working on anything for a long time.
Interestingly enough, my H said he felt "trapped" just as yours said he felt "boxed in." I think they feel that way for the same reasons. To avoid conflict. My H HATES conflict and if I bring something up that causes conflict it causes a huge backslide in our R. He sees it as more of the same. I see it as working through the things that got us to this horrible place.
I vacillate between intense hurt and anger.
Sometimes, like you I wonder if I can ever heal from this monumental betrayal. If he had ended it and not lied several times, it might have helped. Like your H he was very good at deceibt.
He now says it's over and he has not talked to her at all. The last time I questioned this he got defensive. I merely stated that I found it VERY hard to believe that after all this time she suddenly just stopped calling him. I asked for help in understanding this, and he had none to offer.
They want us to trust them Opt. even despite their past.
This is very hard to do as you well know, and we have to do alot of "acting as if."
It sounds as though you've found a way to detach. That's for self preservation.
Although you hurt and mistust at times I don't think you'll eve go to that place when you first found out.
Somehow we get past that-TG.
Even though this is still a painful journey, we get more and more independent and stronger.
There are days when I feel like a puddle of water-all tired out and defeated. Something pulls me up from that and I have not so bad days now.
I also understand your need for control. OR COURSE we strive to control in hopes that it will lead to a less painful journey. I do it even though I strive not to. I simply cannot help myself from it.
My H is not at home and although I want him here more than anything, I realize he's not himself yet.
Someone said in one of your posts that when they finally do change its happens quickly.
In my case it's very slow.
Like your H, mine cannot bring himself to D me nor to completely commit to me. So you see, I'm sitting on the fence as well and have been for a very long time.
I think as Jeannine said the answer is to lovingly detach.
Well ever since I found out that's what I need to do, I've been trying to figure out what exactly it means and what I have to do to get there.
I understand your doubts about his trip. Who wouldn't given his past?
The hellish truth of it is you have NO CONTROL over his choice to do this. You can choose to believe his reasons for going OR you can stress out thinking the worse case scenario.
My guess is you'll go back and forth with your thinking.
We go back and forth because we are following them. Sometimes they give us alot of hope that things will work out, and then there are days that I think I cannot live one more day like this.
I'm sincerely trying to do the detaching thing mainly because I'm afraid if I don't that I'll throw in the towel.
I'm very close at times. It seems the past is too tainted for us to have a future,then I think if all the good years and our kids and grandkids and I get the strength to carry on somehow.
It sounds very similar to your sitchuation and I'm very glad Jeannine told me to read your thread.
Can we help each other through this??
No one understands better than one who is living it.
Where do things stand right now? I understand all too well they can change on a daily basis.
You sound strong right now and you need that to keep going.
You quoted me in one of your posts saying that they've hung in here this long. It would seem unlikely they are going to D us.
I feel very strongly that you and I will have to be the ones
to change our sitch.
In my case, detaching is my first choice.
The other choice, well, we won't go there right now since it's not an option YET.
I've not let it be one.
So......tell me about detaching,and how you've been doing it? I need help with this guys. I just don't seem to get how to do it.
Opt, have you figured it out??? Rachael
BTW, I especially liked T2's post to you on 12/9 and Jeannine's on 12/11.
All good stuff for trying to put this impossible mess into some kind of perspective!

[optimist]

Hi, Rachael

Thanks for visiting... I will read more on your sitch and tell you about the similarities when I have a bit more time...

One suggestion only: I find it a bit difficult to read your posts because your paragraphs are not set apart. Someone posted that to me when I started and was right: hitting enter after each paragraph will make them much easier to read.

Type at you later...

[shinybear]

Hi Opt, Hi Rach (ahem, I mentioned the paragraphing thing some time ago R... )

Sometimes, like you I wonder if I can ever heal from this monumental betrayal. If he had ended it and not lied several times, it might have helped. Like your H he was very good at deceibt.

I don't know if you will, but you CAN...I did. The lies CJ told, the double life, the two OW...the PAIN!!!...barely a whisper remains.

He now says it's over and he has not talked to her at all. The last time I questioned this he got defensive. I merely stated that I found it VERY hard to believe that after all this time she suddenly just stopped calling him. I asked for help in understanding this, and he had none to offer.

Well Rach...after bomb #2 (when OW called me and I found out about her)...CJ "broke it off" and that was it..no contact, nothing...

I found this highly suspicious, but when I'd ask, CJ would become VERY angry and defensive. Of course it WAS still going on...but WAIT..!

After bomb #3 (when he'd ended it for real, and she had to call me to blow the whistle on him again) I was VERY suspicious!!!

I find it hard to believe that that psycho b!tch stuck to her word for once (she'd promised me after bomb #2 that she'd never call here nor bother CJ again... )...but CJ's Christmas letter makes it clear that this time it DID end with no contact.

I think this time OW sensed clearly that she'd LOST!!!

She sure didn't expect me to e-mail her thanking her for getting the hell out of our M!!! (And quasi=threatening to call her H if she bothered us)

So Rach, it IS possible that it just flat ended, CJ's did.

Hang in there gals...so MUCH is possible!

Shiny

[kml]

Opt -
My ILs rented Seabiscuit and we watched it on Christmas - I thought of you
Ellie

[RMC]

Thanks Shiny,
I could use the encouragement. Like Opt, I am so tired of fighting this whole thing.
I wish I could get to the place she is of peace within herself.

I'll take the advise of spacing between paragraphs. I get typing and go so fast I don't pay attention to how it reads. Sorry.

Yesterday H went hunting and did not get done until dark. He told me he was going to his apt to shower and asked me to come over.

I went over (I really thought about saying no) and we ML-very passionate I might add. That was good, but he is still not as affectionate as I'd like, and keeps some distance between us and frankly, I'm getting tired of it.

I'm the one that initiates our get togethers, and calls him most of the time. He is almost always willing to be with me but I want to BE WANTED. I mean REALLY wanted!

My brother told me that H is never coming back, and that I'll never let go of him. It made me think.

Opt, I'm So glad you have found a peace that you deserve so very much.
I'm trying hard to get there. I need to protect myself from being hurt.

You see, even though my H and I are kinda "together" there is still a distance that I don't know where it's coming from. We've been at this for over two yrs.
How do we ever know if they'll really snap out of this??
Rachael

I've been at this for over two yrs

[holdingon]

Rachael,
I think you should take a moment each day to look at the positives. Your mind starts wandering to the negatives and you just let it go and write them all down.

He told me he was going to his apt to shower and asked me to come over.

Seems to me he initiated this get together, even if it was simply going to his apartment.

we ML-very passionate I might add

Ummm, this seems to be pretty affectionate, if you ask me. Have you read Michelles Sex Starved Marriage. Often sex IS the way a man communicates. Often this is HOW they show you affection and love.

He is almost always willing to be with me

why don't you consider this "being wanted?"

I'm wondering if you let go of the fear, of the negatives and think about the positives, the distance between you might get smaller and smaller. What do you think? SO WHAT if you have been at it two years? Consider that a positive... I am two years further down this road, thank the Lord I'm not where I started.

I KNOW you don't want to be hurt, but you ARE hurting yourself every time you WHAT IF yourself instead of living in the moment and taking what you have and cherishing it.

[optimist]

Hi, Rachael

Thanks for spacing the paragraphs... makes my life much easier

I'm trying hard to get there. I need to protect myself from being hurt.

You cannot protect yourself from hurt. Well, you can but it is at the price of shutting yourself from human contact and isolating you in a cocoon where nothing can hurt you, it is true, but love cannot enter...

The only thing you can do is to consciously decide whether you want to open yourself to the possibility of love, and with it the certainty of loss, or whether you do not dare be vulnerable again... Loss (through death, distance or divorce...) comes with life.

But security gained by closing one's self off is a false security. Because you can close your eyes to life, but life goes on around you and over you. Trying to go through life without being hurt is like trying to escape a truck running full speed towards you by keeping your eyes closely shut and wishing it away...

Anyway... no more preaching. Have a nice day... I hope you will find the peace within yourself...

[totite]

HI Opt. (((HUGS)))

So - He's gone for two weeks, Well, like you said - it might be a good thing. Now just continue to enjoy the quality time with your D. Sounds like you have a good start on it anyway.

I am sure that she can sense that some of the tension disappeared with daddy - use it to your advantage and relax a bit.

Hang in there - I am praying for you.

[optimist]

It is curious that you say so... My D asked me to stay home all weekend. She did not want to go out at all...
She skated, but that was all.

I commented that to my partner this morning when he asked about my weekend. In a cheerful way: "we just stayed home and played because blah, blah"; he was a bit worried at first. Then he asked: "Is your H still home?"

Talk about men not being perceptive...