Pie's Story - he's comfortable again

[pie]

Add to the above question please,

Is it possible that sometimes we 'over DB'. And the WAS thinks that we are so happy and content that we don't want them back...and dont ask to come back because they feel rejected and fear more rejection?

My H says he felt rejected for a long time. He was meaning sexually, but rejection is still rejection in general.

[ericmsant2]

Pie

I was not as strong as you in letting him test out other people, while I sit and wait and see and work on me.

I’m really not THAT strong – trust me when I say this. Oh and as for letting my W go out and test other people – trust me, I did not let her what I did (after numerous mistakes) was try and let go of her as best as I could…cause at the end of the day…I finally realized that I cannot control anyone except myself.

I should probably be ok to not be in a relationship and be by myself, but I feel like I've been like that for 2 years already.

As I said earlier – I am not that strong. I DID NOT stay by myself. Nope – I thought I was “done” and met someone. When I realized I was not done, I ended up hurting myself and her. So I am not going to tell you that you should or should not be in a R right now. What I will say is that IF you love your H, then decide what you want to do. Learn from my experience – do you really want to hurt someone else? Also, right now, you yourself know that you are vulnerable. In this state do you really think it wise to be involved with someone else?

Ok everyone, you can all shout and scream at me now

No SHOUT and SCREAM from me 

but I'm just tired of Dbing

IF you look at DBing as just a tactic then yeah your gonna get tired. If you look at DBing for what YOU gain and learn from it, well then you may not be as tired. It really depends on how you view dbing.

and decided to do what my heart told me to

Nothing wrong with following your heart in my book! My only advice would be to make sure that it is YOUR heart speaking and not insecurities, fear, manipulation, anger, impatience, etc.

If you did what your heart said to you in love, with no expectations and no anger – then hey, everyone’s gotta do what they gotta do.

I need to let go, and thats what i need for me to let go. Is for him to tell me to. Is that pathetic?

NO it is not pathetic. A lot of times (and once again I can speak from experience) we WANT to be done. WE NEED SOMEONE ELSE to “release” us. We need our spouse to give us the okay that we can be done.

Problem with this…is that honestly we are not done. The feeling we have will resurface (and yeah you can bury them but trust me, they will come back).

So what is being done mean to you?

You know, a good friend of mine gave me some great advice – RIGHT NOW, you do not have to “define” what you do and where you are at. You simply live your life. Period. Then at some point you will come to understand when and IF you are done – cause you’ll just know.

But now I'm just rearing to go....whats wrong with me?

IF I understand this….your “rearing to go” cause honestly your lonely.

And oh…can I relate – guess what, being alone is not that bad.

So in order for me to truly detach, I need to be not friends..thats me.

I do not remember if you have children…BUT I will agree to disagree with you here. First, define “friends”. Second, maybe friends is not the R you can have with your H right now – what you can have is a civil R if that is what YOU choose.

I dont know how you all do it.

Lots of alcohol! Just kidding….

How do I do it? With support from a lot of friends and an acknowledgment that I DECIDE when it is over. I DECIDE how I want to live my life and I no longer worry about what anyone says. Does that make me a look batchit crazy? Who knows?

I don't even know HOW you start again....how do you do that?

FIRST, I think you need to decide what YOU want to do for YOU. DO you want to wait this out? Your call really. I should not have to convince you that you love your H enough to give it everything you have. Remember no one can ensure that your M will be save.
As for starting again, for arguments sake lets say that you want to try and save this.

First, put aside all thoughts of meeting someone else or “casually” dating.
Second, think about what YOU need in an R
Third, in your specific sitch what do YOU need in order to consider reconciliation.

Is it possible that sometimes we 'over DB'. And the WAS thinks that we are so happy and content that we don't want them back...and dont ask to come back because they feel rejected and fear more rejection?

I think that often we over think things.
As for the WAS thinking we are so happy – we should be so happy. What are you gonna be miserable so that he comes back? No you should be happy cause you are happy. What does a man find attractive in a women….happiness and strength are two things that come to mind.

My H says he felt rejected for a long time. He was meaning sexually, but rejection is still rejection in general

Did you reject him? Did it “sting” when he said it to you? If you did reject him, then why?

God Bless
Eric

[pie]

Thanks for your reply Eric, I really appreciate any kind of adice and input right now.....

You are right, that it would be wrong to hurt anyone else right now...never thought of it that way And yes I'm tired of feeling alone...I have so much love to give, and want in return tho...

I'm feeling very confused about my emotions right now.

I can be friendly and civil and coparent well, but I can't be chummy friends ...its too close to how we were, I can't disconnect from him if we chat like we always used to.

I like the simply live your life thing.

The thing with the rejection was that I didnt initiate sex very often, we had sex about once a week, and the most it was ever was about 2 weeks, but I was sick, and S was sick....

I stopped initiating gradually I think when I started to feel taken fro granted and I came 2nd to his work 100% of the time.

He knows this tho....

H is now back to distant mode (I think), I don't know, he spent last night camping and was supposed to fetch S after lunch today, butvhe left there late. So a few hours late...will see just now....

I think what got me all up in a fluster was that we were getting close, he was refering to me as his wife to people, and just generally being like the old H. And 2 days later I find out about the overnight camping with the probable OW (his secretary).

I just felt like all of this was a waste of time. That my patience was for nothing, and that it could go on forever like this, without me even knowing....and I didnt like that. i couldn't do it.

[pie]

Ok H picked up S. Appologised for being late, but in a nice way at least. He was late for the barbecue he was going to (family friend), so nothing much to report. Basically was in and out in less than 2 minutes.

You know what I can't handle? Not knowing if there is OW or not.
And I feel like , unless I disconnect from him, I will probably always wonder...and thats no way to live I'd end up insane...

I feel like I'm not like so many of the level headed people on this board who have this incredible ability to just accept whatevers happening, and go with the flow, even if it means knowing their H is with OW. Its one thing knowing you can't control their actions, but that doesnt mean you are not still hurt by their actions

Maybe I'm just not getting it right. This complete detachment thing. i kinda get it right when he's distant and offish, and away alot. But when he starts being all nice, and talks to me like we used to talk, I get all soft and squishy again. And THATS my downfall. So that's what I have to stop Somehow....

[ericmsant2]

PIE

I have so much love to give, and want in return tho

Have you given some to giving YOURSELF some of that love that YOU have and want to receive. Think about it for a sec….

DO YOU NEED someone in YOUR life?

Why rush into something because of NEED?

As for giving yourself love I can think of some many things to do..

1) Pedi and mani
2) Spa treatment
3) Vacation with some friends…hey maybe South Beach
4) Pick up a really cool new hobby
5) Go back to school
6) Go shopping!

I can be friendly and civil and coparent well, but I can't be chummy friends

YOU don’t have to be “chummy”. A good solid coparent R is really all that is needed.

At the end of the day PIE, you need to feel good about yourself and YOUR life. If being around your H makes this difficult then honestly don’t be around him until you fell that you can emotionally still be happy.

I think what got me all up in a fluster was that we were getting close, he was refering to me as his wife to people, and just generally being like the old H. And 2 days later I find out about the overnight camping with the probable OW (his secretary).

Here is a reminder cause I know you heard this already….

1) MLC = Confusion i.e. “he was referring to me as his wife”
2) EXPECTATION = fluster for YOU i.e.” . And 2 days later I find out about the overnight camping with the probable OW (his secretary)”

I just felt like all of this was a waste of time. That my patience was for nothing

You said in one of your earlier post that you have done the work on yourself….was that a waste of time?

As for your patience – what I see is that you still have not detached and let you H go. Once you do that, you will find that you are no longer stressing over the patience cause you will be too busy living YOUR life.

You know what I can't handle? Not knowing if there is OW or not.

DO you know why you can’t handle this?

Cause IMO, your SELF WORTH is tied to HOW YOUR H feels about YOU.

Your confidence has taken a huge hit and OW has not helped. So deep down you feel like if there is no OW then there is a chance.

Here is the thing…

Accept that you are special regardless of what your H says. Don’t just say it to yourself – BELIEVE IT.

Accept that your H is in a crisis and nothing YOU do will change it.

Accept that IF there is OW, that she is symptom of the problem and not the problem.

I feel like I'm not like so many of the level headed people on this board who have this incredible ability to just accept whatevers happening, and go with the flow, even if it means knowing their H is with OW. Its one thing knowing you can't control their actions, but that doesnt mean you are not still hurt by their actions

Actually PIE, I am very much like you. You may not see it that way but I am. Do you think that I like the idea that my W is out fuc*ing another man? Do you think that I sit here and just allow it and therefore I am some sort of level headed person with some incredible ability to accept it?

I can tell you this – I have cried my eyes out on numerous occasions. I have been in the house and have slept in the same bed with someone who by her own “text” messages “is in love with someone else” (who by the way is married). Dealing with this for 14 months has not be easy. I have been through hell BUT….as I began to let go…as I began to understand LOVE…as I began to understand that all of this is MY CHOICE…well then things started to change for me.

I choose to love my W

Chance are that I will be divorced and honestly, I am okay with. WHY?

Cause I finally realized that I cannot help her. I finally realized that I have done all that I can do. I finally realized that today…this very second…when I stare in the mirror and look at my ass (which for the record is sexy) I like what I see!

I have given her everything I have – by my CHOICE.

A CHOICE that I made and am man enough to stand by.

PIE – one day you may realize that standing sometime is for YOU and NOT your H.

Standing can mean….finding…

Can mean…growing…

Can mean….that you take a step back and MAKE THIS ABOUT YOU!

But when he starts being all nice, and talks to me like we used to talk, I get all soft and squishy again. And THATS my downfall.

YOU feel this way PIE because you expect him to return the favor, which in a normal healthy R is what you should expect. Problem is that you are not in a normal healthy R right now. Your H is gone, fu*ked up in the head, a selfish little teenager who want what he wants.

When you finally stop letting his actions dictate how you talk to him, what you do for him, how you feel….

Well then everything changes.

PIE, maybe you think I am crazy. F*ck maybe we all are.

Here is what I know….

I am 100 times the man I was before I embarked on this journey.

I am and will be 100 time the partner to someone when that time comes

I am ME

And nothing my W says, who she f*cks, what you or anyone else says can change how I feel about ME..which once again….

I like me!

Nice to met ya, my name is Eric and I am a MLC survivor!

[pie]

Sexy ass Eric :),

Cause IMO, your SELF WORTH is tied to HOW YOUR H feels about YOU.

You hit the nail on the head.

This IS the problem. I have felt it subconsciously, and only now reading it has it brought it to the surface.

I have taken a HUGE knock in my self-worth. I was VERY ok with myself before this. I felt attractive inside and out.

Everyone says I'm way out of his league image wise, but then I think, is there something wrong with my 'inner me' then?

I still havn't bounced back from this yet. Clearly.

Maybe some people take longer than others. God I hope I do.

I was just thinking maybe THATS why I want some love now. To validate that I'm actually ok goods And THATS not ok at all Oh dear , what a sad revelation....

I fear I might be a little broken inside

Thank you for your words Eric, got me thinking in a new direction now, for me. Not sure how to fix my self image tho Everyone keeps telling me how wonderful I am, how is it that some one with a high self esteem can suddenly be knocked down to someone with so little? By one person?

That means I have a screw loose in that department hey?

[ericmsant2]

PIE

I have taken a HUGE knock in my self-worth.

Everybody does when the bomb hit. It tends to knock you off of your feet. So FWIW, your like the rest of us. LBSers that are broken and working hard to fix those things inside of US that need repair.

was VERY ok with myself before this. I felt attractive inside and out.

Have you ever ask yourself WHY YOU felt one way before and feel another way now. Write down what you feel were your attractive traits and then go find them INSIDE OF YOU.

Everyone says I'm way out of his league image wise, but then I think, is there something wrong with my 'inner me' then?

First the statement that “everyone” is saying about being out of his league is a little superficial if ya ask me. Is their something wrong with the inner you? Think about it and tell me what do you feel about yourself. Better yet…write down 10 thinks about you (not physical) that YOU do not like. Then write down 10 things about YOU that you do like or maybe want to explore and open up too.

I still havn't bounced back from this yet. Clearly.

You registered in June of this year – PIE, change takes time! At least true change does. It is one of the reason why you will find that in the MWD books she instructs us to work on ourselves. It really is the foundation of the “work” that we breach here. What is a 180 if you think about it…it is a change that YOU make.

The key IMO, is to make the changes that YOU want NOT changes that will try and pull your H back to you. The reality is that your H will need to decide when he is good and ready IF he wants to give the R another look.

will prompt him to want to reconsider?

1) Attrraction – what is more attractive that someone that is happy and confident in themselves? Having said this, we ALL have insecurities. It is how we deal with them that really shape who we are. Do we allow our insecurities to drive our decisions i.e. I will become a doormat and have not self worth because I “fear” that you will leave me. Get what I’m saying to you?
2) Forgiveness – Once the spouse wakes up and begin to look at themselves the will realize the amount of damage that has been cause (hence the depression). In order for them to even consider coming back, they need to know that they are/can be forgiven. It really is the same for the LBS if you think about it. If you acknowledge your role in the failure of the M and feel some level of guilt that honestly YOU too would want to be forgiven. To be more specific in your case, maybe the lack of intimacy would be something that you would ask and WANT to receive forgiveness for.
3) Friendship – Most strong and healthy partners are friends. IMO, with out friendship you can really have no chance at reconciliation. This is why MWD suggests detaching with love. Believe it or not it can be done. Is it easy? F*ck no. Probably one of the hardest things to do and honestly most will struggle with it. Why? Because I believe that many of us, myself include have a certain amount of codependent habits. These codependent habits CAN change IF we do the work on ourselves. If we begin to understand what a real healthy R looks like.
4) Love – without it NOTHING WILL EVER WORK. Many will tell you that love is a choice and I agree wholeheartly with this belief. I also believe that LOVE is a gift from God. I believe that God but people in our lives for a reason. I am not suggesting that once married you cannot be divorced. No. What I guess I am trying to articulate is that IMO, God allow you and your H to meet and wed. He allowed you to LOVE him. I do not believe that God takes this love away from EITHER of YOU. Regardless of what mistakes, behaviors, issues, that both of you have – I believe that the Love at some level will remain. This is why detaching is so hard. This is why, the process that the LBSer goes this is so damn emotional. It is why I believe we all cycle.
5) The work you do – So to sum up the DB receipt (at least IMO),
a. Detach – allow you and him to step back, cool off and
b. Work on yourselves – You cannot make him do his BUT you sure as hell can work on yourself and kill the demons that help bring the M to the state that it is in. Yes, he is in a crisis and probably would have had one regardless BUT you and him had issues that needed to be dealt with – NOW is YOUR TIME to do this. Not for him for YOU.

Maybe some people take longer than others. God I hope I do.

Actually most people place a timeline on the work, on their stand AND it is the timeline the causes a lot of pain. You know I spent a long time trying to figure out when I would be done, when was it enough, how much of my W crap would I put up with. So I would say…3 months – f dat! After 3 months I’m gonna throw her as* out. Well 3 months came and went. Then it was 6 months, then 9 months and then a year UNTIL finally, I said fuc* it. Whatever the hell is gonna happen will happen. I try to no longer put a timeline on stuff. IMO, the timeline = a limit that YOU are placing on YOURSELF. So why would you want to limit yourself.

I was just thinking maybe THATS why I want some love now. To validate that I'm actually ok goods And THATS not ok at all Oh dear , what a sad revelation....

You want love because you have been told or made to believe that you are the devil reincarnated probably (nickel to a friend). You want love because you need that external validation and although we all will tell you that you should not need it – the reality is that we all do. So, accept that you are looking for that validation but make sure that it does not become a “dependency for you”. So IMO, it is not a “sad revelation” as much as it is you being honest with yourself, which is a good sign IMO.

PIE, what I will say is that once you begin to feel better about YOURSELF, the amount of external validation that you need will diminish and what you will begin to see is that the external validation has become more of a WANT and LESS of a NEED.

I fear I might be a little broken inside

Did you say fear? To me? Chit PIE, I’m scared too. It’s scary not knowing what the future holds for you. It is scary not knowing if you will be able to survive. A lot of things in life are scary. DO you know what the biggest one is?

Facing your fear. Looking at. Digging inside yourself and KNOWING that you have some serious work to do on yourself. That PIE is some scary chit.

Fear can paralyze you. It did to me for a long time and FTR, can sometime STILL take hold of me. I thank God for these boards and the people in my life that help keep me focused and real. What I can tell you PIE, is that this fear will go away ONCE you stare that fuc*er right in eye. I know and believe in all of my heart that you can do it. Unfortunately, I cannot do it for you. It is something that you will need to face. If you do, you will come out BETTER, STRONGER and guess what…

Even more attractive, especially on the inside.

Not sure how to fix my self image tho

First one word – BELIEVE…believe that you can and guess what YOU WILL.
Second word – FEAR – Face it and you will find that you are stronger than you think and that strength will help you fix what YOU YOURSELF now YOU need to fix.

That means I have a screw loose in that department hey?

No you do not have a screw loose…okay maybe you do. Ha…just kidding. No you don’t. The fact that you are asking questions is a good thing. My hope and prayer for you is that you do not stop. That you do not begin to dig and really get to know YOU, only to be scared away from yourself.

You can do anything you want PIE – first things first….LET GO of YOU old M and really focus on YOU.

God Bless,
Eric

[irishblessings]

Pie -

Heed Eric's words - it is difficult but it is necessary. Your feelings are COMPLETELY normal - natural!

Take care!

IB

[hope for zen]

Pie, I am reading your posts and thinking "I'm at exactly the same place." When my H pulls back and acts like a cold a-hole, I can DB my but off. I shine. But then he comes over all sweet and needy, and I melt.

25yearsmlc has been slappin' me upside the head with some great advice and pointing out how much I still pursue my H. I'm finally learning that the mantra arround here about "believe none of what they say & half of what they do," means the good stuff too.

Don't believe for a minute that you are broken. You are not only surviving your H's crisis with strength and dignity, but you are growing and learning through it.

Take a good long look in the mirror and tell yourself you are amazing, beautiful, and irreplacable. List all your good traits. No negatives, or backhanded comliments allowed. The person staring back at you is the one who's opinion counts. Everyone else will just follow your lead anyway.

[pie]

Thank you Eric, gosh. I have a long way to go dont I...

H will be away for a few days, so its a perfect time for some solid uninterrupted more ME work, and I think I'll be referrring back to your posts everyday..

You have made ALOT of sense to me....its quite scary.

Making those list of things I like and dont like now.

Thank you Zen, its nice to know I'm not alone, and someone is in similar shoes...:) Will keep up with you