Quote: You are handling this all very maturely. I'm so proud of you!
I was handling it maturely until this morning... Sorry to disappoint you...
Yep, he's confused up to his eyebrows. When Wolfie was in the deepest part of that state, despite how angry I was at him, I was worried that he really had gone insane.
Yes I am very angry, angry at him. He has had all this time and is still out there in the fence... I am very, very mad... and discouraged... all this effort, what for?
Quote: I'm sorry that we are all having to go through bouts of that behavior, but it can't last forever, can it?
It better not, I sure cannot last forever at this... one way or the other...
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
You can't be perfect. Yes, none of that was good. But you are a living breathing person, not a computer, emotions and stresses are going to play a part.
Hopefully by this evening he will have realized that you did realize what you had done and were trying to apologize.
Take care of yourself today.
{{{{{{Optimist}}}}}}}}
Glass is half full!
He snuggled, you and had a nice breakfast two days in a row!
Plus as Sage told me one time. Every mistake is a learning experience to build yourself to do even better from that point forward! I'm betting you don't let those things get you like that again.
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
Quote: So much for loving detachment... More like self-sabotage...
Hey, you're not the first to morph the two and I suspect you won't be the last. As long as episodes of this nature are the exception and not the rule, the damage should be minimal.
Hi Mr. Cool. I appreciate your coming out of your cave to give me some great advice... sorely needed as you see...
Quote: It sounds like he's really confused about things, and needs to sort them out. I think if he'd already decided he wanted out, he wouldn't be asking you to wait on seeing the attorney. Curious choice of words on the 'boxed in' comment. Any idea what he was referencing?
He used the words 'boxed in' and 'in a box' in at least two separate occassions... I am not sure but I suspect that he feels confined by his choices, not free to do what he wants to... He is very much into what is 'logical' and 'right' to do... He does not usually follow impulses.
It may also refer to feeling pressured and controlled by both sides...
I did not want to press him into elaborating... though perhaps I should have
Quote: Understandable. (Well, at least to me.) He's telling you that he's not involved with OW at this point. He's also saying that he can't/won't return to a life like he was living before. He's trying at this point to decide what his best course of action is. It's very important at this point for you to continue showing him that the changes are real. Don't be surprised if he "tests" you at this point.
I am glad you think he is not involved with OW. I have to much baggage and have heard the 'there is no one else, it is me, I am in crisis' thing so often when there was OW all along that I cannot separate truth from fear any more. And I have failed the test big time so far...
Part of the problem of course is that I do not see what right he has to 'test me.' I did not live a lie for 5 years, I did not sleep with OM... I was hurt in the deepest way, and he comes now and tests me to see if I am not going to go back? Where did he get the right?
He wants to be sure he is not going to go back to how things were but refuses to give me some kind of assurance that he is not going back to this W? He has humiliated me in front of his whole home town, but cannot give me some kind of status in front of OW... Welcome to the real world, H, there are no certainties!
The other part is that I am angry, very, very angry... Angry to the point in which I am thinking in earnest to throw in the towel... He wants time? Fine, he can have all the time in the world... He can have the rest of his life if he wants... Just do not waste my time, as he has been doing this 7 months...
Quote: It's easy to forget that the WAS is hurting also. He wants to make sure he's not returning to a situation that's going to cause him more pain. It's kind of a self-defense mechanism. When he's debating what he wants to do, it's very important that you keep DB'ing. It's important at this point for him to see that the changes are real.
Oh David, trust me, the changes are real. The question is that maybe the changes will have to be applied to a future R, not this one... Maybe the wound is too deep and too infected and amputation is the only viable alternative...
I know he is hurting, I am very sorry for him. I am keenly aware that he is going to lose much more than I will in this sitch. He has lost me, he has lost our family, he has lost his self-respect, he has lost the office that took him 5 years to build up, the house we had dreamed of for 10 years, he has lost his father and his mother and his grandmother... He is alone alone, by his own choice...
Sometimes, David, we are so afraid of being hurt that we cut ourselves from real human contact... With the certainty of not being hurt again we close ourselves to the possibility of love... and the vulnerability that love can bring...
It may well be too late for him...
Quote: Don't read too much into this part. He's identified a problem: he needs space and time to think and sort. He's doing the male thing, and looking for a solution.
Actually I thought it was a very good idea... I had proposed it to him in August because it helped me a lot in the beginnig of this but he chose to go with our D and asked me too...
Quote: Did you take his comment to mean that he's selling office to get away from OW? Does "somewhere else" mean another city?
Yes, he is selling the office to get away from OW and he may accept a salaried position in town... he said reagardless of what happens with us...
Quote: Sounds to me like he's wondering what's up. He probably doesn't understand why you're putting a time limit on it. He could be thinking you're giving him an ultimatum, a deadline, or that you have other plans that don't include him. Remember that he doesn't know everything that's been going through your mind. He may not understand, and may feel like you're pressuring him. I'd suggest a short note or conversation just letting him know you wanted to explain what you're really trying to say if you don't think it's already clear.
If things cool down I will try to talk to him about it...
Quote: Maybe it's a guy thing... a lot of times "home" means "away from work". If he's selling the office, he's probably thinking about getting his personal belongings out of there.
But he is also shifting his IRAs mailing address to the office instead of home... a contradiction of terms, don't you think?
Quote: Another good sign. It's showing that he's reaching out to reconnect. He's trying to see if he can be comfortable in the relationship again.
Yes, he had been more relaxed and 'tactile' since that convo... of course now things may change...
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Quote: He used the words 'boxed in' and 'in a box' in at least two separate occassions... I am not sure but I suspect that he feels confined by his choices, not free to do what he wants to...
Remember when I asked you about his tendency for conflict/avoidance? You mentioned his mother and the issues surrounding his earliest and ongoing experience with that topic. I suspect that he has felt "boxed in" much of his life.
Quote: he is selling the office to get away from OW and he may accept a salaried position in town...
His issue with conflict/avoidance (especially with women) is so debilitating for him that he would rather sell the business than confront her?! Ouch! Again, I think he sees himself "boxed in" (in part) because of his lack of learned skills regarding confrontation.
By the way, he can learn them - my H is in that learning process right now.
I know that I would (and have) thought "I should be more important to you than that bi@%*!". And I have known the kind of rage that consumes day and night. I doubted whether I'd ever be able to like my H again. I even spent time deliciously daydreaming about bludgeoning my H to a pulp. (I'm not normally a violant person )
My point here is that at a time when our lives have been completely disrupted, and the intense pain is nearly unceasing for long periods of time, we can and sometimes do, temporarily stop living within our normal scope of behavior and suspend our usual code of ethics.
I might even go so far as to say (thereby agreeing with CHL) that this also applies to the WAS.
You have every right to feel hurt and angry. I don't think it can be altogether avoided.
But let me ask you this - if you weren't so hurt and angry right now, what would you be doing in regard to yourself, your H, your marriage and your future.
{{{{{{{{{{{Opt}}}}}}}}}}}}}} This is the kind of situation where I find it so hard to apply pure DBing principles, so I leave that to your wiser friends here to advise you. I just wanted to say that I completely relate to all your feelings right now, the incredible hurt, anger and frustration. I'm sending feelings of comfort, solace, calm and optimism your way. Hang in, dear.
Quote: Remember when I asked you about his tendency for conflict/avoidance? You mentioned his mother and the issues surrounding his earliest and ongoing experience with that topic. I suspect that he has felt "boxed in" much of his life.
His issue with conflict/avoidance (especially with women) is so debilitating for him that he would rather sell the business than confront her?! Ouch!
Again, I think he sees himself "boxed in" (in part) because of his lack of learned skills regarding confrontation.
Yes, Jeannine I agree that my H feels boxed in because he is unable to confront people or situations with which he does not agree... and partly his willingness to confront me in those issues makes me hope that things can change and he trusts me up to a point...
As to my anger, I am feeling much better now that a bit of the pressure has leaked out. As I said I called to apologize and then let him some time to cool down.
A little while ago he called me at work, officially to have me talk to my D (he picked her up from school today). But I do not think my D had the idea of calling me... Maybe it is wishful thinking, he still sounded angry and ungracious on the phone but he did not have to call...
As to your final questions... I'll have to sleep on them.
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
What am I doing in the second page? Better rescue myself...
Yesterday came and went without any major development... H seems to be a bit more upbeat but has not returned to the levels of caring and involvement he was at before I blew it... I am acting 'as if' and not making plans... I hope he will get there eventually... if not, tough luck (shrug).
I asked him today if he had found someone to cover for him 'after the 28th' and he said no. He was looking for a guy, but I had to tell him this guy had moved... gave him a few pointers on who had substituted him...
I think I had become temporarily adled and forgotten my state of detachment, so I am working steadily in reacquiring it... I am getting there by slow degrees...
I am still trying to think of a Xmas present for H, but I had to admit I could not care less about Xmas and about presents. The only ones I am interested in are our D's and those have been bought a long time ago.
Life is weird.
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
and had a nice breakfast two days in a row! 
)