You make your own path as you step...

[KutieKat]

opt

all these mates are confused or we wouldn't be here. the only thing i can say right now is that you have an awesome amount of peace and be thankful for that, for this is what is giving you strength

let us know any further developements as they happen ok?

kitti

[imalright]

opt,
I agree your H is confused, but aren't they all! Like Kitti said, that's why we are here.
He asked for time and space and it's up to. Your decision.
Keep us posted on how things go!

Deb

[talitsa]

Wow, Optimist...so much happening in your sitch in such a short amount of time.

You are handling this all very maturely. I'm so proud of you!

Yep, he's confused up to his eyebrows. When Wolfie was in the deepest part of that state, despite how angry I was at him, I was worried that he really had gone insane.

I'm sorry that we are all having to go through bouts of that behavior, but it can't last forever, can it?

[Zoo]

{{{{{{opT}}}}}}

I dont know what else to add to everything that has already been said. The important thing is that you do what feels right and best for you.

My thoughts and prayers are with you

Hugz,
Zoo

[holdingon]

I was worried that he really had gone insane

Yep, know this feeling. Hang in there Opt. See what tomorrow brings.

[CoolHandLuke]

Does anyone understand this man?

Nope. He probably doesn't understand either.

I haven't been posting much lately, but thought you could use a guy's opinion.

I apologize in advance for the long post. I've quoted a lot of your post to help dissect and organize my thoughts....

He still wants the separation. He says that he does not know what he wants, that he feels 'boxed in', that he needs time and space to think. He asked me not to go to the lawyer or ask for a court date until then. He wanted 2-3 weeks to go away somewhere and think, decide what he really wants... He admitted he did not know if he wanted to stay married for me or for our D (and has the same doubts about me).

It sounds like he's really confused about things, and needs to sort them out. I think if he'd already decided he wanted out, he wouldn't be asking you to wait on seeing the attorney. Curious choice of words on the 'boxed in' comment. Any idea what he was referencing?

I asked him point blank if he had restarted his A with OW and he said no. He says that if he wanted to be with her, he'd had left and let me go on with the D.

He said he was scared of coming back and finding me again in the same mental mess I was in when I first discovered the A in May (duh). And that he feared returning and finding an attorney's letter with TRO.

Understandable. (Well, at least to me.) He's telling you that he's not involved with OW at this point. He's also saying that he can't/won't return to a life like he was living before. He's trying at this point to decide what his best course of action is. It's very important at this point for you to continue showing him that the changes are real. Don't be surprised if he "tests" you at this point.

It's easy to forget that the WAS is hurting also. He wants to make sure he's not returning to a situation that's going to cause him more pain. It's kind of a self-defense mechanism. When he's debating what he wants to do, it's very important that you keep DB'ing. It's important at this point for him to see that the changes are real.

He cried, I cried, the usual thing... I tried to be supportive and validating, but at several points I had to firmly and politely ask him to listen to me and let me finish what I was saying. He kept getting ahead of me, interrupting me and saying that he knew what I wanted to say... Not very like him.

Don't sweat it. Key words: "firmly", "politely". If you're compassionate, understanding, and supportive it's okay to stand your ground when you need to.

He asked me to go to my folks for Xmas, for 2-3 weeks so that he could stay and think, but if I did not want to go, then he wanted to spend Xmas with us. He will find someone to cover for him and close his office for 2 weeks then take off... he did not say where and I did not ask...

Don't read too much into this part. He's identified a problem: he needs space and time to think and sort. He's doing the male thing, and looking for a solution.

He says he wants this fixed before the end of January. He has put up his office for sale and intends to close it and take up a job somewhere else..

Did you take his comment to mean that he's selling office to get away from OW? Does "somewhere else" mean another city?

I told him that I'd prefer to have his intentions settled before Jan 15. He kept asking very forcefully why and I told him because that way I will know whether to ask the attorney to set a court date or whether to ask for the rest of my retainer back. That left him a bit stiff, and he answered roughly 'do whatever you want'.

Sounds to me like he's wondering what's up. He probably doesn't understand why you're putting a time limit on it. He could be thinking you're giving him an ultimatum, a deadline, or that you have other plans that don't include him. Remember that he doesn't know everything that's been going through your mind. He may not understand, and may feel like you're pressuring him. I'd suggest a short note or conversation just letting him know you wanted to explain what you're really trying to say if you don't think it's already clear.

He offered to leave immediately if I felt uncomfortable having him around until Xmas, but I said he could stay. Then he went to get chickenwings for our dinner...

Good sign that he's thinking about your feelings.

After dinner, I asked him if what he feared is to come back and find himself divorced, and he said yes. So I told him that my fear was that he'd take OW in a 2 week trip and I'd find that they had cleaned the bank... So I firmly but lovingly asked him to change the accounts back and put them in my name and go to the CPA with me before he left. He agreed immediately, but then added 'see, for you it is always about the money.' Quite an unfair assessment that I did not question. I just said 'no. It is not a question of money. I want to send a message to OW, just in case...'

It's a trust/fear issue. You both have one right now. This is an excellent opportunity to DB and show him that you've really changed.

Is he telling you that he's feeling 'boxed in' because he feels he has to make a decision soon to keep you from contacting the attorney and finalizing the divorce? It almost sounds like he's feeling a lot of pressure.

So we went to sleep and he hugged me all night. He woke up late and fixed breakfast in a really good mood. He brought up the change of address himself and said he'd send a letter. I told him he could call and he said tonight. I did not say anything and a bit later he did call, was still calling when I left...

Sounds like he was feeling some closeness there.

I gave him a framed picture of the 3 of us to take to his office, but he said he is bringing things home, not taking them there. I did not point out the contradiction in his statement...

Maybe it's a guy thing... a lot of times "home" means "away from work". If he's selling the office, he's probably thinking about getting his personal belongings out of there.

And he proposed we go to the movies tonight...

Another good sign. It's showing that he's reaching out to reconnect. He's trying to see if he can be comfortable in the relationship again.


Of course, these are just my thoughts and opinions... I could be wrong.

[Azure]

Wow! Look at all I've missed. Save all your entries for when you write the great American novel.

Hang in there, Opt. My best thoughts are with you.

[VelvetPear]

YOUR H is afraid of what's on the other side of YOUR road. HE knows the jig is up, so to speak. HE knows that YOU will NEVER be able to look at him the same way you once did. HE knows that he's failed as a H and father to his daughter (with respect to his personal code of ethics and character)
YOU are the mirror of his failures and his reflection in that mirror IS NOT a pretty sight...especially to HIM.

Like him, the OW wears the same despicalble branding as a less than moral person. SHE doesn't have ANY RIGHT to judge him, she can't because she is just as tainted as he is....so HER side of the road feels safer to him right now. There's no one on HER side to tell him he's failed as a man, because she helped HIM to fail. She's NOT a mirror he has to look into, she's a reflection of who he's become.

I am having a bad night tonight and thought I would read about others problems to help distract me from my own. It seems I always find a little something from these postings that helps me feel better ... walk away stronger.

These words are so true and insightful. I have felt this way, but haven't been able to put it into words like you have. Thanks

Opt .... hang in there. Some days are worse than others. One thing I have vowed to myself is NOT to make any decisions about my marriage when I am tired or feeling depressed or happy. Yes .... happy. When things seem to be going well, it gets my hopes up only to be dashed when H acts like a weenie.

So, I try to take each day one day at a time. I try to enjoy the good days and pray the bad days get fewer and farther between.

I read a quote in January 2004 Reader's Digest that said, "Live each day as if it were your last because one of these days you'll be right."

Hang in there Opt! XOXOXOXO

VelvetPear

[psluke]

Good Morning Opt,

I hope you are doing well today!

[optimist]

Thank you all for your support and your advice. I wish I had read it last night before I messed up... I will answer to everyone later more specifically...

We did go to the movies, in a rather rocky way. We were getting in the car and he took some papers and put them in the trunk. I asked what they were and he got mad at me, picked them up and showed me. He was mad all the way to the theater...

We watched 'Master and Commander' and he mellowed. We held hands all the way home. Then we went to bed and snuggled in again, very close... Early this morning, I woke up in the middle of a nightmare in which he and OW were walking down the aisle in her son's wedding, then left together for a Caribbean resort laughing at me... I was angry and upset, and hurting and I wanted to lash out (I am not proud of that, BTW) so I got up and threw the picture frame that I gave him yesterday to take to the office in the trash can...

I went back to bed and he snuggled close to me, then ... He got up and made breakfast for both... then changed to go to work...

He saw the frame in the trash and asked if I did not want it. I said, well since you did not want it... He said: 'yes, I want it, I put it on the shelf in our bedroom'. I answered 'You did not want to take it to the office, so I threw it away.' He was very mad, picked the frame up saying emphatically 'no' several times and left it on the bathroom counter... then he left to take our D to school without saying goodbye or anything else...

I came to the BB and read your posts and came to my senses... I called him to apologize and, boy, was he mad. He acused me of being passive aggressive (and it was passive-agressive behavior I guess, where is Shiny when one needs a professional opinion?) and lashed out at me. I agreed I had acted badly, explained that I was hurting and had lashed out at him, which was absolutely wrong, apologized again and tried to validate when he let me chime a word in... He said we'll see each other tonight...

So much for loving detachment... More like self-sabotage... of course if I throw him away, he cannot leave me... it was I who left...

When he left this morning I was within inches of calling it quits. You guys saved me from that. Thank you.