Snodderly (and Lance) I try to be cautious about imputing views and acitons to others as it is hard to get it correct. What I was trying to say was simply that whether or not the WAS comes out of the tunnel is down to THEM as well as how we handle it. So many of us still think we can 'fix' it. We can't. The citing of Snodderly was to demonstrate that however much patience, compassion and insight we have, it doesn't bring them to the other side.

Snodderly, I thought that the decision was yours, but I also thought that `Rip' was still in MLC, as you confirmed. Like you, alhough somewhat later, I am coming to the view that enough is enough. My husband isn't as damaged as your appears to be, but he shows no real inclination after more than 5 years to try and re-build any sort of relationship with anyone close to him. I feel huge compassion for him, but see him as totally lost

There is a lot of agonising about 'If I had only done this' and 'If I hadn't said that' Healthy adult relationships allow for us to say and do the wrong things, and put it right.