Sandi's Place

[sandi2]

IMHO,I think the WAW has shut down her feeling toward the LBH. By feelings, I'm speaking of sexual attraction & respect. I believe those two things are necessary for a healthy MR. Many WAW's still care for the H (in like she doesn't want him to suffer, but she just wants to be left alone to have her A).

I believe in many cases, the feelings of the WAW toward her H has been shut down before OM came on the scene. That makes her very vulnerable to an A. When she gets in the A she feels like a high school girl again. I believe at that point, she mentally/emotionally separates her H and puts him, M, kids, etc., in a separate catagory.

Some people claim they can love two people at the same time, but I believe most women are not wired to do that. If her brain is flooded with those false chemicals of being in love....that is going to be what she will think about over most anyone else.

After I stopped the EA and I made my decision to stay in the M, I did not instantly have feelings (the right kind of feelings) for my H. I was still dealing with a lot of resentment toward him and grieving the fantasy in my EA. But, I think it is possible for a W to go back into the M having a numbness toward her H.

At first, the W has to choose to do lovings acts on purpose and not b/c she feels like it. That's really hard for her and the H,but it's like re-training her to be his W again.

I wrote a post on another thread yesterday about feelings. It's hard for a woman to separate herself from the feelings. However, when the WAW leaves an A and makes the decision to stay with her H....she's got to overcome the urge to let the feelings "rule" her. The whole A was acted out from feelings. She was feeling numb "before"the A and that's why her heart was unprotected.

I am living proof that you can get over OM and you can find your way back to your H and have the right feelings for him.

[gutwrenching]

Sandi-
You are such a giving person, thank you, I don't know if you hear that enough but you give a ton to other people. You have certainly paid forward. I for one will be eternally grateful and thankful...
I am very appreciative of this insight and perspective. As you said, piecing is hard, and I don't think one can appreciate how hard until they live it.

I appreciate the candid response. And it actually gives me more optimism and that is always good.

A lot of it is anger and guilt...and that she just needs to deal with it, bury it, put it in its proper place, continue to move forward with us.


Is this what "she's" saying or what you are saying? If I'm reading it correctly I think you're saying that's her thinking about it

That is what she has said. It is close to a quote. She says she knows she wants and needs to feel nothing. Yep, probably the military in her. As I'm sure you remember, she can be tough and stubborn.

Sorry to say, but she will have to deal with the emotional fall-out. The longer she was in the A, the longer it will take to get over OM. But, also it depends upon if she feeds thoughts of him. It's easy to let the mind wonder back into "what if".

Yes, I guess I knew that. Thanks for the reminder though. Now that I know just about everything, the EA lated almost exactly one year. Went deep undercover. And yes I realize she has to deal with the fallout. The sucky thing is that I end up dealing with the fallout too...the wondering if they have started contact again, wondering how much she is suffering, etc.

Wow! I've had to deal with guilt but not like that. Can you explain how she's angry or how it's directed? That's got to be tough for you to know she feels guilty not keeping her end of things with OM. I'm sure she feels guilty about everything, and especially for being unfaithful to you. I would think all those emotions are doing a big number on her and may be hard for her to always name and put in the proper catagory.

She did not tell me she felt guilty for this, but she all but did. That was one of the hardest if not the hardest thing I've had to listen too...the fact that she had "promised OM that I would marry him" and then to find out how early this was done and then to hear the fact she felt she needed to say I'm sorry for not holding up her end of the bargain. And yes, I can tell, there is deep guilt that she has said and talked about with what she did to me and to our M. Many, many times she has said she can't believe the person she became, she doesn't like that person. She has told me there is anger at him. I can't quite follow what the anger is for. I think it is a combo of things: anger at how controlling he was, anger at how he judged her on things only for her to later find out he was a hypocrite about things but other than that I'm not sure. She says to me and she is being honest, we have had a handful of very open/honest/emotional talks that she doesn't know why she has anger. And she admits she still thinks about him. Tough to hear, but again I know she is being honest at least and you have confirmed that...and I appreciate your perspective.

I would suggest that you keep working at keeping the lines of communication open with her. As long as she's talking about her feelings then that's good

Great point. I hate the fact I have to bring it up and get her talking about this stuff, but she has told me more than once that she doesn't like talking about it even when she needs too because she knows hearing this stuff hurts me and she has hurt me enough

Let me share this, as a WAW who had an EA, I would catch myself resenting my good H. I felt like doggie poop and here he was this wonderful man who I had done so wrong

WOW. Great insight. I could see my W feeling this same way.

She may wonder why those feelings linger around, but they will begin to fade......jump back up once in a while,but they will stop.

GOOD!

It took close to two years for things to feel normal again. I don't usually tell people that b/c it sounds very discouraging.....but it is also realistic and I don't want you to think you are not doing something you should be and that progress isn't happening. It just takes a long time when hearts and lives have been wounded on this level.

Although not what I would want, I am not discouraged. I like the story straight up, not sugar coated. I didn't come this far to just give up cause its going to take a long time. But again, thanks for the insight. It means a lot to me...especially with the rough couple of weeks we've had.

We did talk about this a little again this morning. Of course, I had to bring it up. But one thing she said today that was good to hear was the fact that although she really wants to email to him and get this all out of her, she realizes that would open up the door again and that opening up the door to communication with him is not a good thing.

Remember, like you, this EA was all over the phone and computer. Although they met and made that initial "connection/spark" (Oh that was hard to hear about too...hearing about how they both felt this immediate connection when they first met) in person, it was never acted upon until months later when they had both returned home...then it all got started with a computer.

[sandi2]

Ah, thank you so much. Those are very kind words and I appreciate it. I don't seem to have the same......passion, maybe....as when I first came. Maybe passion is not the right word, IDK. But anyway, it is so encouraging to see people gain something from the board, and if I can be a tiny part of that.....then that makes me feel humble. (I used that word on purpose.)

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1772834&page=4

Some day when you have some time on your hands, I think reading this thread above would be very helpful. Her name is Fighting Fit and she was first a WAW in an A, and then was the LBW. I immediately thought of her when you spoke of how hard it was to listen to your W talk about meeting OM and the instant spark between them. FF explains it so well, much better than I could ever do. Plus, I didn't meet with OM, but I knew what FF was talking about when she described being with the A person. I remember her saying something about (she was telling about the PA)how both are all "feely and crabbing", but went on to expain what she meant by that. I believe it's b/c the WAW has paved the way in her mind and OM could be worse than awful--but she would have made her mind think it was great. So many factors to bring into it.

I've also read where it has had the opposite effect. When a couple first met with intentions of turning EA into PA. Sometimes the man couldn't perform well or the woman was disappointed, etc. Either way, I believe it's all about the fantasy. It sets her up and it will either cover up the reality to make her think it's great, or she'll be disappointed in her A partner and more happy to leave it within the EA limits where her fantasy will continue to support her.

the fact that she had "promised OM that I would marry him" and then to find out how early this was done and then to hear the fact she felt she needed to say I'm sorry for not holding up her end of the bargain.

I'd be worried about you if you "didn't" have a hard time hearing her say that. That is why the two you will need to lean on each other for support through the piecing. There may be times that you need to receive some reassurance from her.

BTW, you mentioned how early into the EA that they began to talk about M, etc. I think that might be somewhat what common. That's one of those things that I look back and wonder who I was during my EA. I almost wanted OM to assure me that he would make a committment, which was absolutely crazy! But, he must have known how women are, b/c he said all the right words without just coming out and proposing M.

So what I'm saying is that this OM she had an EA with is not God's gift to women.....and he certainly wasn't to your W. One day when she's had time to get her right senses back, she'll realize he wasn't what she wanted. He was willing to tear up his family and have an A with a M woman and tear her family apart as well. After the blinders come off, she'll begin to see him in a completely different way.

You know as well as I that she owes the OM no apologies whatsoever! I hope this part will be short-term. Maybe it's b/c she feels that it's her fault for his D? Just keep trying to make her see that an A does not have to have closure, the way I've read about some WAW's, but it does have to have an immediate hault. Remind her that it would be disrespectful toward her H if she were to send some sort of "I'm sorry" email to OM. You can see how she's not thinking clearly b/c she's giving to much "importance" to OM. You are in the tough position of being very careful in how you state these things to her!

The saw cuts both ways, doesn't it?

Both of you have to have the other one in oder to "piece" together. When I was a little girl, I would watch my grandmother make a quilt for the winter. In the beginning, all I saw was a bunch of cut-out odd-shaped pieces of fabric. It looked like a mess to me. What I didn't know was my grandmother had a plan. I'd ask her a lot of questions about how she knew where to put which piece and she would smile and say, "You just wait and you'll see how all these little pieces will come together to make a beautiful quilt for the bed". It seem to take her a long time to quilt. All those tiny hand-stiches she so carefully made with her needle & thread. Sometimes I thought her fingers must be very sore from her steady work and I even saw her bring blood once.....but she kept at that chore of love until one day it was done. She stood up from her chair and said, "Sandi, come see your new quilt". There before me laid the most beautiful designed pattern of colored "pieces" that my beloved grandmother had made for me. I didn't know how, but I knew it was with love....and her determination not to stop until it all came together.

I still have that old quilt, GW, it is precious to me. When you and your W have made it through piecing back your M, it will be more precious than ever b/c both of you worked steadily and refused to give up until all those pieces fit together.

[fb2]

Sandi thanks. What you have said seems to reaffirm to me that true love is indeed a "decision" and not a "feeling". I early on tried to get a few strong willed women to understand this but they simply could not. I think "retro" also tries to say this as a central theme. I think if this is well understood before the marriage vows there would be be very few A's and D's and WAW's. For you to rise above your feelings was not only very heroic but I'm guessing may not even have been attempted if your upbringing had not modeled the commitment of marriage to you.

[sandi2]

For you to rise above your feelings was not only very heroic but I'm guessing may not even have been attempted if your upbringing had not modeled the commitment of marriage to you.

Thank you. Yes, it was very hard for me. I do owe so much to the way I was raised, my Church, and what I learned here on the board. The first book I bought after I decided to R, was Love Must Be a Decision. Man,that was tought.....lol. It hit me every way I turned.

When you've been bathed in those PEA chemicals from the brain, it's hard to come down from that and agree to make a decision to love your S. But that was right for "my" situation. If I had waited on the feelings to rush in, we wouldn't have made it.

[New Life]

Sandi,

Is there any other way to get those PEA chemicals in the brain... (trying to wean myself from Internet EA and work on 20+ yr SSM, resulting depression)

T2GU?

[New Life]

Sandi,

You are SO right -- those feelings have been shut down towards my husband for a long time (SSM --20+ yrs)! Which is why I was vulnerable to Internet OM. WASN'T looking for it...). Friendship 1st, then just recently turned romantic. I'm here trying to find that good feeling some other way... SSM led to prolonged depression that has been SO deep and dark until this OM. SSM led me to try other low-risk thrills and preoccupations over the years (shopping excessively, over- involved mothering) that each time I conquer. But, now wondering if I shouldn't deal with ROOT cause...

If I'm going to be a WAW, don't want to do it because of OM... Want to do it for myself. I
Know it would shock husband into DB, but by that point... Do I have it in me to DB???

T2GU?

[sandi2]

I can identify with what you are saying. Have you started a thread and told your story? If not, why don't you do that in Newcomers forum?

I did the same as you. I also was so lonely and depressed and had given up on romance.

There is another lady here on the board that went through the Internet stuff. You might want to check her thread under Newcomers. She calls herself SoAshamed.

As for getting the PEA some other way, I'm not sure exactly how you mean that. Are you directing that to your H?

[New Life]

Sandi,
Thank you so much for being here. This is my first morning of waking up to nothing....
SO glad to find a message from you! Feeling very empty!!! Need those PEA brain chemicals back... Even if just a text, it was wonderful to wake up to "Good morning love!"...yeah, sick I know but also showed me what Iwant from H/M.

I'm so grateful to have found a message from you this morning so I didn't do something stupid! I deleted everything from OM in the wee hours of the morning... The games where we met/ chat, the screensavers of special chat convos, his phone no. And other contact info. Even my sent mails to him that I'd re-read:(

Right now my husband knows nothing... Why hurt him? But also, how do I wake him up? Do you have a link to your story and how you got through this? I'd like the brain chemicals BACK! Or at least a way to understand them and get through withdrawals..
After years of depression, it felt good to feel good again. Dumping OM is only the first step... I need alot of work!!!

Thank you so much, it helps not to be alone in this. Where did everybody go?

T2GU?

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Starsky309]

Thank you so much, it helps not to be alone in this. Where did everybody go?

If I told you, I'd have to kill you.

Just kidding. You can find many great DBers over on MWD's FB page. It's a great support group, and she has some great resources there.

Starsky