Thank you SA, Punkin and CW - I was kind of curious about H's worsening depression and went back to the "other" MCL site to re-read some of the material to see if it means any progress in the MLC stages.
"The repercussions of adulterous and regressive behaviour--the effects on spouses, children, coworkers, friends etc.--will yield greater dissatisfaction, unhappiness and depression. The typical reaction to these consequences is to avoid more, sinking deeper into the fantasy life which will only continue to yield the unpleasant consequences. These in tandem with the opposing regression behaviour create a repetitive pattern of cycling behaviour common to midlife crisis.
Replay will continue until he not only realizes that it is not making him happy, but also that it is making him feel even more lost—that his life is becoming worse. Like an object requiring external force to alter its course of motion, the unpleasant patterns in his life will continue until challenged either externally or internally. When each quick fix he tries fails and he runs out of quick fixes, he can go into Liminality. But even then he may jump or climb out of the pit to attempt additional quick fixes. He needs to run until he's too tired to keep running and too battered to pick himself up when he falls"
Maybe he is moving closer to the next stage...Liminality?
"Some believe that the OW relationship will not survive into Liminal Depression and that this break-up may even be what facilitates the transition into Liminality. Though the latter may be true, it is not so in all circumstances, and the idea that the affair will not continue beyond Separation is misleading. The affair can continue through Liminality, but the nature of the relationship will change. The fantasy woman let her guard down and revealed herself; instead of infatuated, the MLCer may now feel trapped or stuck. Since he’s destroyed everything else in his life, he might as well suffer through it and make this last thing work".
Interesting isn't it? We will see what happens next...where is Old Pilot?...he would offer me some more popcorn LOL
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
Thanks for bringing that over and sharing. I had read it before and the longer my sitch goes on and observations of my H the more I believe he will take the road of suffering through it to make that last thing work. I think sometimes whatever pride is left may have a factor in it, too.
I wonder if it would do any good to let the MLCer know that the LBS would be willing to try and rebuild in a case like that, if in fact they would be?
I understand that my H is no where near Liminality yet and this wouldn't occur, if it does, till much further down the road.
There is plenty of popcorn at my house to go around. All are invited!!!
I wonder if it would do any good to let the MLCer know that the LBS would be willing to try and rebuild in a case like that, if in fact they would be?
Nope,
part of the "falling down" or "hitting rock bottom" is the loss of the LBS. As long as they "feel" us standing there waiting on them, it makes that fantasy that more enjoyable.
When the fantasy becomes thier "new" reality.....well then the fantasy ends.....it is now "REAL".
I think, IMHO that the old Relationship, Marriage, whatever has to absolutely die, dead, no pulse for both the MLCer and the LBS for the MLCer to start to look at "Life" again.
It takes time for us, the LBS to let the R die. Doesn't mean we don't love our spouses but the R is dead. After the true death of the R, it will take time for the MLCer to see life for what it is and realize that they are responsible for the unhappy mess they find themselves in.
Happy Little Friday.......remember "Life is Good"
Cheers
Formerly "missherlove"
Me49 XW49 M17 T19 S16 D20
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
I think, IMHO that the old Relationship, Marriage, whatever has to absolutely die, dead, no pulse for both the MLCer and the LBS for the MLCer to start to look at "Life" again.
IMHO, I also believe that PRIDE plays a huge role here. Maybe it's just in my stich but I believe that an MLCer who has never been able to put pride aside would end up "making it work" as outlined in the last sentence below....
Quote:
Though the latter may be true, it is not so in all circumstances, and the idea that the affair will not continue beyond Separation is misleading. The affair can continue through Liminality, but the nature of the relationship will change. The fantasy woman let her guard down and revealed herself; instead of infatuated, the MLCer may now feel trapped or stuck. Since he’s destroyed everything else in his life, he might as well suffer through it and make this last thing work"
In short, this should remind us LBSers why it is so important NOT to tell the world what is going on with our MLC spouses. It really does create another issue for the MLCer to have to face.
I also believe that as Missher posted you really must let completely go! AND this as we all know is the hardest thing to do.
God Bless, Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
SA - I think that pride would be a huge issue...I know it would be for my H. You ask if they should be told that there is hope for R....He knows that I love him but he also knows that I don't trust him....he is starting to realize how much damage he has done to our relationship and he even blurted out few times "you are going to hate me forever" and "you think that I'm a horrible person"....so he probably doubts that I could forgive him and that it's fixable....on the other hand, this is his second affair in our marriage and I forgave him for the first one, so he knows it's possible to do under the right circumstances.
MHL - I agree with everything you said in your post...that's how I'm looking at it also. BTW how can I not agree with a guy that quotes Jimmy Morrison?
Eric - I've been thinking a lot about the part about other people knowing what he has done....and in my case lot of people know, some he told himself, his family, some friends, he even told his own daughter that he "fell in love with someone else". I told my family, because I couldn't get away with just saying that we mutually decided to separate...they know better, they know how strong our marriage was and how much we loved each other. I also told couple of my girlfriends...the ones that support me....needed someone to unload to. Do people judge him? Yes some do, but I always try to just state the facts and I do make concession and excuses for him....they know that I don't hate him, some even know that the proverbial door is still not totally shut. Will they accept him back and not judge him? I believe in people's compassion and if it's doing to be our choice to R they will forgive and forget.
But agree with you Eric, it would be hard for H to face everyone...he is still kind of avoiding everyone including his dad....shame, guilt?
Lance - I'm sure OP is still watching over us in some form or other LOL. Thanks for the popcorn
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
I meant if you felt your MLCer was through or almost through the crisis and was staying with the ow/om because they felt that was the only choice they had after all they'd done, then I wondered if it would do any good to let them know that the LBS would be interested in trying to rebuild the M.
Hi SA - I don't think my H is anywhere close to being done with this....I think the reality of everything that has happened and the consequences may be sinking in...hence the renewed depression...but for all I know he may think that the OW is still worth the price he is paying. I think if he wanted to come back he would say something regardless if he thought that I may turn him down...if he wanted back he would try to get closer....and at that point I could decide if I want to give him any hope or not...but that's just what I think my H would do....maybe your H would need some encouragement...I'd say we all have to use our knowledge of their personality or whatever is left of it in MLC and use our gut feeling the rest of the time.
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
Just discovered that H's behavior towards me can still upset me
Had a business meeting this morning with H....I came and was cheerful and nice, even gave him a big smile when I arrived....Him...gloomy...no smile back. Talked about business for a while...civilized and mutually respectful...and then he attacks....no provocation, just out of the blue...."You think that I'm not doing anything that I don't work hard and that I spend to much money...I said "No, what are you talking about. Did I ever said that to you?"...he replied...with a very hateful and very angry look "No, but you said it to D"....what?????? Where did that come from....never did I tell D that....told him so...couldn't believe how hateful he was "Yes you are telling her these things"...wow...sorry to say that brought the tears out....maybe it wasn't even what he said but how hatefully he said it...how his "monster" came out again.
Calmed down and told him that I never said those things to D. Yes we did have discussions about money with D...she was used to money not being an issue in her life and now I'm penny pinching and being very selective as to what I allow her to buy. So yes I told her that business is doing very badly and we have the extra expense of second household for dad........if she made a conclusion from this that it's all his fault that we have money problems...well what can I say.
Asked him if he thinks that D is OK with all that has happened and did he even consider that it's possible that she is angry with him and maybe blames him for the financial situation? He didn't reply to that.....
Also told him that I don't want to be talked to the way he just talked to me...I don't want to be accused and attacked that I had enough of that in the past year...and that I'm very sad that he has forgotten what kind of person I am. If he didn't he would know that I'm not the kind that would try to poison his child against him, no matter what the circumstances are. As a matter of fact I still feel strong loyalty towards him...don't know why....I care about him and often defend him with others.
If he wants to we can sit down with D and talk about these things. To that he replied NO...I don't want her in the middle of it (hello...she is in the middle of this).
We settled down after and talked about the SA...he is eager to see it and get it all done so I pay off the business debts and he can start tapping into the credit line again.
Must say that he has been working harder in the past month or so and it maybe slowly showing...at least we are quoting and have new prospects...and some smaller jobs are tricking in....
To recap...I'm not as detached as I thought...he managed to make me upset with the personal attack. Darn it....
H is still projecting...deflecting
Here is an article that I think really fits
Feeling Threatened, Covering It Up with Anger and Projecting It on Someone Else
Anger, and the need to look good to protect the fragile self-esteem, is the basis of macho behavior, bullying and aggression. Denial, repression, projection, and blaming others are defense mechanisms, which help you try to avoid feeling guilt and shame. Blaming another person instead of looking at your own part of the problem is called projection.
Judgments, criticisms and labels all function to isolate us from others. Our attempts to project our own painful elements onto other people interrupt the growth process.
Projections are a defensive mechanism where we ignore what we do not like about ourselves and become upset about that same trait in another. They are the disowned aspect of our personality. Blaming others protect us through distractions and help keep a lid on the terror that knowledge of our dark side might provoke.
Projections protect us by keeping a lid on the terror that knowledge of our negative qualities might provoke. You project your own guilt and anger on to others when you judge and label the other person's actions instead of just observing or witnessing them. Carl Jung believed that the projection defense functions like a mirror between the ego and the unconsciousness personality. The negative characteristic that has been disowned which has been tying up psychic energy in the ego will be reflected in the person's daily experience.
What you resist, persists. Projections are warning signals that something is unresolved in your self. Carl Jung said that if you do not know and own the darker aspects of your self, you will project your own negative repressed elements on other people.
The intensity of your anger and projection is a function of one or more of:
* 1.The size of the negative part inside yourself, * 2. The amount of the denial that you have about this trait in yourself, * 3. The need of your soul to work out this projection, judgment and criticism.
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
