I do think that it's the majority of the time (hence, my use of the word "often," instead of "sometimes"). But it was either Glass or Harley who did groundbreaking work and were, themselves, astonished to find that about 20-25% (if memory serves me correctly) of infidelity came from otherwise HAPPY marriages (and "happy" being defined as BOTH spouses reporting that it was, indeed, a happy and good marriage).
It would be a mistake for a LBS to not look at their own role in the negative contributions to any marital dysfunction.
It would also be a mistake, I believe, for a LBS to always assume that they are in need of fixing, otherwise their spouse wouldn't have cheated on them. Sometimes it really is just lust.
Seems like Punchy is "conscious" of his wifes feelings and validated the issues she has with him.
I see it differently. While she may notice and appreciate the changes, she doesn't feel heard or understood, imo. "Issues" are not what require validation - feelings are what require validation.
Originally Posted By: Coach
He is doing the work yet something is missing because one year later it's not working.
Would you say, then, that DB cannot be advocated, since it is not working for him even after a year?
Originally Posted By: Coach
I agree you need to know how to address your WAS issues and the role you have in the M. One is not mutually exclusive of the other you can have healthy boundaries and practice true giving to your WAS. One needs to be wise and strong to pull it off. Most importantly you need to love yourself .
This is the only approach I have seen that has led to healing a marriage in such circumstances
Odd, there are plenty of other examples right here in this forum where the turning point was when the betrayed spouse set and eforced boundaries by letting the wayward spouse go.
They stopped making excuses, stopped walking on eggshells in their own life, and were prepared to move on without the wayward before things turned around.
In fact, that makes up the majority of cases that have turned around here.
How do you reconcile that with your assertion?
This shows that walking on eggshells and having no boundaries is ineffective. And I agree that being prepared to move on is a key element in moving things forward, either to heal the marriage or to divorce. There are a whole lot of other things as well.
I haven't been able to find this approach to dealing with affairs in DR - perhaps Frank can find it.
A key element is the unfaithful one not only accepting responsibility and expressing remorse, but also understanding at a deep level the impact her/his affair had on their spouse.
That's just it the couples here are no where near that point. I have no issues with what you are saying it's the wrong tool for the problem at hand. Read up on how the "in love" (PEA Chemicals) effect the brain. Also look into what women find attractive in men. A predator is invading your home, how should a man act?
The goals is to get a WAS to see the reality and not the fantasy. To get the LBS from enabling bad behavior. Stop the affair, stop the abuse. All the while a LBS is doing the work on themselves and learning how to communicate better, learning how to truly love someone and to make sure they are true to themselves in the process.
Quote:
I don’t think there is any magic bullet that can get another person to change or make the choices we want them to.
There's not a magic bullet. But we all have a choice in how we act and how we let others treat us.
Quote:
Boundaries are a complex area since they deal with what is going on with both people. Likewise, couples in which there is infidelity are rarely a simple matter of one “bad” spouse and one “good” spouse
Boundaries are simple it's all about behavior. It's not labeling someone bad, it's you are doing something that is harmful to me, our marriage, our family and I won't allow it to continue. The offending party can choose to do what they want. Why would someone love you if you don't care enough to love yourself?
I agree with what you are saying once the affair is busted. The question is what actions do you take to get to that point.
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
It would be a mistake for a LBS to not look at their own role in the negative contributions to any marital dysfunction.
It would also be a mistake, I believe, for a LBS to always assume that they are in need of fixing, otherwise their spouse wouldn't have cheated on them. Sometimes it really is just lust.
Oh, I agree. In the end, you have to be as absolutely honest as possible about the state of the marriage along with the knowledge that nobody makes anybody else have an affair.
I see a lot more people here making a codependent type of mistake: to assume that they can control the choices of their spouse by changing themselves, or using the right magic words, or whatever.
It does no harm to improve your communication skills, it does no harm to learn from your mistakes in all of your relationships, and it does not harm to try and improve your own life through GAL stuff, self-validating, and so on. Those things are all good. But your spouse, in the end, has free will.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
The sample I have is a biased one, since it consists of couples that have recognized their desire to somehow make their marriage work, even in the face of affairs. (Abuse is another matter)
Just a point-of-information, Mr. Chairman, but many would contend that affairs constitute "abuse."
It would be a mistake for a LBS to not look at their own role in the negative contributions to any marital dysfunction.
It would also be a mistake, I believe, for a LBS to always assume that they are in need of fixing, otherwise their spouse wouldn't have cheated on them. Sometimes it really is just lust.
Oh, I agree. In the end, you have to be as absolutely honest as possible about the state of the marriage along with the knowledge that nobody makes anybody else have an affair.
I see a lot more people here making a codependent type of mistake: to assume that they can control the choices of their spouse by changing themselves, or using the right magic words, or whatever.
It does no harm to improve your communication skills, it does no harm to learn from your mistakes in all of your relationships, and it does not harm to try and improve your own life through GAL stuff, self-validating, and so on. Those things are all good. But your spouse, in the end, has free will.
I agree with the "often" part. And it is certainly a complicated dynamic. I believe that most of the time, both spouses have a role to play (albeit not necessarily an equal one). And most of the time, affairs tend to be more symptoms than causes, that is a reflection of problems in the relationship rather than the cause of the problems themselves.
Also, don't forget the sex addict, which is a whole other thing entirely. I suspect that when dealing with a sex addict, nothing but a consequence-based approach would likely stand a chance of being effective (and even then, the odds are not that great, imo).
I agree with the "often" part. And it is certainly a complicated dynamic. I believe that most of the time, both spouses have a role to play (albeit not necessarily an equal one). And most of the time, affairs tend to be more symptoms than causes, that is a reflection of problems in the relationship rather than the cause of the problems themselves.
Also, don't forget the sex addict, which is a whole other thing entirely. I suspect that when dealing with a sex addict, nothing but a consequence-based approach would likely stand a chance of being effective (and even then, the odds are not that great, imo).
