Always and Forever??????

[handlingplanb]

Remember that if your h had died and you were eventually happy, it would mean finding out who you are without him. So now you have to do that. NOW.

I'm going to jump in here, because I think IB and I have this in common - she can correct me if I'm wrong.

It would be different if our H's died. Maybe this is just for those of us that are too connected or dependent on our spouses (IDK) - when we are rejected, betrayed and cast aside it is an insult on our self. It is a very personal betrayal, one that makes it extremely difficult to just choose to move forward. It is very difficult to just choose to be happy - and it seems impossible.

And, I know you aren't saying it's easy to just "be happy," just that for some of us it is very slow going.

It's not like a death - because with death you don't see that as a personal rejection/betrayal.

Even with all I've learned and think I understand about myself and what this is all really about, some days I truly feel like I must be a piece of sh*! - if total love and devotion for 20-30 years means nothing --- if my spouse can just be "done," and chose to leave and choose to destroy our family rather than STAY and WORK on our M.

The person we have loved for most of our adult lives - and still love - has chosen that we are no longer worthy of their love.

This is what I am having trouble with. The person I've loved for 30 years - the person that used to tell me often that he loved me, that I was beautiful, that I was his best friend - that there was nothing we couldn't do if we did it together, no longer thinks that to be true. I can make a list of my good qualities and what makes me a good person that would be pages long, but the rejection by the person I love makes me feel worthless.

[irishblessings]

Even with all I've learned and think I understand about myself and what this is all really about, some days I truly feel like I must be a piece of sh*! - if total love and devotion for 20-30 years means nothing --- if my spouse can just be "done," and chose to leave and choose to destroy our family rather than STAY and WORK on our M.

The person we have loved for most of our adult lives - and still love - has chosen that we are no longer worthy of their love.

This is what I am having trouble with. The person I've loved for 30 years - the person that used to tell me often that he loved me, that I was beautiful, that I was his best friend - that there was nothing we couldn't do if we did it together, no longer thinks that to be true. I can make a list of my good qualities and what makes me a good person that would be pages long, but the rejection by the person I love makes me feel worthless.

EXACTLY!!! There is this huge disconnect between the reality of today and the reality of the years together. But the reality today is that I have NO CONTROL over anyone but myself. I want to lead a clean life. I want to create a home for my kids, friends and family that is full of laughter and kindness. I want to find peace.

I am struggling right now with not being ready to be around him in an amicable way. It still hurts too much. I don't know if that makes me weak or egotistical or what - but this is the first time in my life that I have set a boundary that is healthy for me. I know there will come a time when I will be able to be around him. It's just not now. Is this wrong?

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Handling,

In an earlier post I wrote to IB, I covered this distinction. The distinction is that if you are widowed, you are not a "rejectee" whereas if you are divorced, someone has rejected you. It's obvious, and I totally understand this. But let's hone in on what that actually means.

It means that though the loss is the same in terms of losing companionship, it's really our egos that are taking a beating with divorce, as opposed to the grief of pure loss thru death.

And we have control over our egos.And yes, we are in charge of our happiness. If we had flaws that contributed to the divorce (b/c oops we're human), so be it. We work on those flaws so we're better people, & we move forward knowing we are less likely to be hurt by those FORMER flaws in the future Rs. Then we forgive ourselves and we move forward b/c the alternative is to stay stuck and wallow, becoming bitter people consumed by our pain, who teach our children that when they face betrayal or a terrible setback, WHICH THEY ALL WILL AT SOME POINT, the pain is eternal and, effectively fatal. It's neither.)

In contrast, If our spouses chose to leave the m and had some or a lot of invalid reasons for that choice, or were simply lousy people to begin with, then we have even less of a reason to stay stuck in our grief. It's THEM & their crazy journey, not US. And all you can do then is back off of them, and move forward in our own lives, which is exactly what we should do regardless.

Look, I have been there and I have done the grief process. It's not the same for all of us yet there are common elements. Yes, I couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, was preoccupied, nervous, emotional and angry. I went on AD's and lost weight and obsessed, a lot. I spent a lot of time asking questions without answers. Or thought that if there were answers, somehow it would mean something & changed..what? Nothing b/c the plan of action is the same no matter what...

(IB said at one point she needed answers to cope but I say "not so. You may not ever EVER get answers, let alone "good ones", to why this happened - so I say please stop putting lives on hold waiting for answers. Oh, and if you get answers, who says that will HELP you move forward?)

I have several regrets about how I handled things when my marriage was so seriously challenged. I was so sad and angry for way too long, and so focussed on what my h was doing, thinking, feeling, asking "WHY? WHY? WHY?, and how he would react If I said or did #1 versus #2 or #3. I had mental decision trees galore, and it was ALL ABOUT HIM....and how terrible the various options would affect me and then, back to him....WHAT A WASTE OF MY LIFE'S ENERGY!! I got to a better place but if I were in the same boat again and knew then what I know now,

I would have worked on ME and MY LIFE & My FUTURE, and MY CHILDREN'S LIVES MUCH MUCH SOONER and creating it faster...b/c I was not fully present for my children at a time when they really needed me more, b/c of my all consuming pain that sapped my mental and emotional energy and lessened my availability to them. I was miserable, and I was not bringing much to the table as a woman either, except my UN-met needs and grief and pain and anger at him and the injustice of it all...(Which is SUPER attractive to men, btw)

I'm now in a good place. Though I take breaks from this site, whenever I return I'm amazed at how many walking wounded are out there, AND how many live to survive, and thrive...Some people remain bitter & lonely victims. But Every bitter lonely person who is still bitter and lonely, in the end, is there by their own choice. If they're too blind to see that, well, enough said.

Getting through this takes time AND effort. Time, is time. Some amount has to pass and there's no other way to say that. We have to get through and past it. But in terms of effort, YES it has to be made. No one "snaps out of it" without effort made.
Hopefully we can make enough sense and suggestions for people in that dark dark place, to light and then find their way out of it.
Good luck,

[25yearsmlc]

- if total love and devotion for 20-30 years means nothing --- if my spouse can just be "done," and chose to leave and choose to destroy our family rather than STAY and WORK on our M.

The person we have loved for most of our adult lives - and still love - has chosen that we are no longer worthy of their love.

This is what I am having trouble with. The person I've loved for 30 years - the person that used to tell me often that he loved me, that I was beautiful, that I was his best friend - that there was nothing we couldn't do if we did it together, no longer thinks that to be true. [/quote]

(Leaving aside the "total love and devotion" description of one side of the marriage)...In time those memories of REALITY will resurface. They have to. They'll return to him sooner if you back out of the picture and let them, b/c as I've said often, the more you challenge his choices, the more he defends them By not backing off to let the smoke clear, you actually prolong the time it will take for him to see reality. And as for the rest of this, as you say, it's beyond your control. And spending time and energy on things beyond your control, are wastes of time and even counter productive.

EXACTLY!!! There is this huge disconnect between the reality of today and the reality of the years together. But the reality today is that I have NO CONTROL over anyone but myself. I want to lead a clean life. I want to create a home for my kids, friends and family that is full of laughter and kindness. I want to find peace.
Do whatever it takes to CREATE, not "find", that peace.

I am struggling right now with not being ready to be around him in an amicable way. It still hurts too much. I don't know if that makes me weak or egotistical or what - but this is the first time in my life that I have set a boundary that is healthy for me. I know there will come a time when I will be able to be around him. It's just not now. Is this wrong? [/quote]

How could this be "wrong"? You mean, you wish you could detach enough to not be weirded out by his presence or you fear you'll "lose it" in front of him? Who knows? Maybe by having some contact and not making such a big deal about it, you'll get more used to it. Maybe Try it in small doses? It would be nice for your son and it WILL be necessary at some point. Proms, graduations and weddings happen. Do you want your energy to be focussed on whether you'll "lose it" and feel terrible later, or on your son's big day(s)?

Also if you have SOME contact, especially minimally, your h will be able to note your changes and the new you, assuming you've made some changes, with periodic contacts. If he never sees you he may begin to assume you are exactly as he fears/demonizes, etc. What about teaching him that he can be a tad relaxed around you? How on earth can you hope to rebuild anything if the tension between you two is so great that you cannot manage ANY contact? I UNDERSTAND why you feel this way but you have to have a timeline in your mind at least, as to how long you'll give him all this power. At this rate, you'll miss your son's prom/graduation and wedding.

Back to your contacts and no contact policy, if you HAVE to do this, so be it. But How will you contrast those negative images with positive ones if you cannot manage ANY time around him? And What does "around" him mean? Can you manage 2 min of being in the same room as he is? I'm wondering what it is you want to know on this matter?

[irishblessings]

I have been trying to prepare myself for S's basketball season where I will see H frequently at S's games. We were the "team parents" for our kids - and it is just difficult to feel so exposed. We were the ones who held hands and were friends with each other. We didn't speak badly of one another with friends - there was always that respect.

Now H is VERY confident (outwardly) about all he is doing. I can't be around that right now. I tried so hard to keep the marriage going after H's disclosures - I think it weakened me more than I thought. I actually feel stronger by keeping my distance. I don't want to present as weak - I'm not weak. I just want to feel centered.

25 - I am SO grateful for your return to this board and your input. Everyone here has been so incredibly helpful. I don't want to walk down bitter street - and I certainly don't want this to define the rest of my life. I just feel like this grief has been a long time coming and I have to let it out.

[punkin]

Irish,

Don't be so sure you'll be thrown together during basketball season as before. MLC'rs are notorius for not following through. Stay close to your S, as his Dad's letting him down may not be easy. He knows you are the one he can count on. Continue to be that person.

So, if H is there for S during basketball, great. If not, you will be there always. It's a big gym. Full of people. Sit in your usual spot and make him move. And concentrate on your S and the game. Easier said than done, I know, but it can be done and I know you can do it.

[irishblessings]

I understand what you are saying Punkin. But I will be there for every one of them:)

Tonight I went to a party with friends I haven't seen since all of this came down. It was really nice to see some really wonderful people. I am very fortunate.

H texted me about plans he made for taking S to breakfast tomorrow. I was out at the party - so it was later when I responded "ok thanks"

25 - I've thought a lot about what you have shared with me.. I agree with you that I need to get to a place that I am at least able to be centered when around him.

[irishblessings]

Today I drive to Ohio - decorate my daughter's college house for her big 21st birthday party - have dinner with her after her game - come home and enjoy an evening on my couch watching a movie! Yea!!!!

[dl443322]

Hi IB.

This is all a process. We all go through it in our own time, in our own way.

I found that sometimes I had to force myself to do certain things until they became easier over time.

It was difficult to be around my h at the beginning. Very difficult.

But I found that if I knew I was going to see him, I would be my best self. After all, I had nothing to be ashamed of, I had no reason to hide my face.

Now I understand that you dont want to spend the day with him, but, if you are going to see him somewhere, remember to be the person you aspire to be. After awhile, you will be that person.

So, when you see him at the games, be the strong, confident, worthy person you want to be. Act as if that is how you feel.

You are at your son's game. You are proud of him, you are happy to be there to support him, the game is fun. So, that's the focus. And that's what you want your h to see. That peron.

You can do this, IB. Sometimes you have to stop being in your head too much and just live your life the way you want to without regard to your sitch or your h.

[irishblessings]

Thanks Brooklyn.

Came home from spending time with my mother and middle daughter. Nice day. Now curled up on the couch - wine and SATC2

I'm ok