Change is in the air........

[dolphin_05]

GAG, I'm a bit of a fence sitter here but I just had a thought re your situation...... don't forget the four phases. You can't rekindle romance until you become friends.

XH is XH and he has a woman other than you as he's entitled but unless she was there pre-separation she's not an ow in the true sense of the word. She could be his security while he sorts his feelings for you?

I wonder if XH could cope with an ultimatum? I remember DB coach telling me my biggest ally was patience. She told me not to go with ultimatums.

Four phases
- get rid of negative feelings

- become friends again

- rekindle the romance

- re-commit to the marriage

I don't have great clarity at the moment as I swing from side to side but this was just a thought I had to add to the convo!

(((((GAG)))))

[dolphin_05]

Oops....a PS. I really don't cope well without the edit function!

Do you have anymore sessions with Jody? Did she give any thoughts on this before?

[LanceSijan]

I hear what everyone is saying here, but IMHO at some point you must "LET GO" , I guess I am more of the ROBX camp.
You must risk everything in order to gain(to borrow a line from HB).
You have heard people say to drop the rope.
I am not saying to give ultimatums, or to be harsh.

But if you love something enough let it go, if it comes back it is yours, if it doesn't it was never yours to begin with.

This is a tricky tightrope that we walk down.

[seeking answers]

JMO but hasn't GAG already let go when she and her XH divorced?

To me it sounds like she's in the process of building a new R with him. Just like when you begin dating someone you really don't know where the R will go.

GAG's getting to know the new XH. Who knows, maybe she'll find out that he's now someone she would no longer want to be in a long term R with.

Her XH is dating. He's told her he's not interested in a long term R with the woman he's dating now. If it was a serious R, why would he risk playing TT with GAG and having her find out?

Sounds like her XH is trying to sort out his feelings. As long as GAG is still living her life, what's the harm in seeing where this leads if she wants to?

[LanceSijan]

JMO but hasn't GAG already let go when she and her XH divorced?

That is a good question. I can't answer that only GAG.

Also is GAG's husband still in replay?
Or is he trying to reconnect with her to end his replay antics?

There are no right or wrong answers here IMHO.

[goodattitudegirl]

WOW!!! Thank you so VERY much MHL, CW, Cas, Lance, and Seeking,

This isn't standard DB 101 stuff so I have been feeling at a loss and your discussion is very, very helpful. I am going to try to write my thoughts (may miss a few points). I've reviewed notes from my last session with Jody too.

First of all MHL, thank you SO much for sharing your perspective and so generously sharing your time in writing that post. You have really given me something to think about. Didn't feel like "wood" to me. (May I just say that your W must REALLY be in the fog. Your posts are so generous and thoughtful.)

Your post and the others have helped me to finally 'get it' that I need to change my thought process where XH is concerned since we're post-D. I need to think of him as a fella whose head I am trying to turn. I agree with you that OW#2 really isn't an OW, so I will begin referring to her as GF#2. My sources tell me they have been dating for ~6 months. I believe XH that he wasn't involved with anyone before he left; again my sources say this didn't start until our D decree was signed 7 months post-bomb.

XH is not living with GF#2 and doesn't have plans to marry her. XH told me in September that GF#2 is threatened by my friendship with him, so that is most likely why he is not telling her about our weekly meetings and emails. When XH and I were together he played pool every friday afternoon with a woman he met online long before we met. He told me about it, I trusted him, and she even came to visit at the house one day. She was REALLY not his type.......but this is something he has done in the past and is comfortable with.........I just have no interest in being relegated to that position. In answer to your question, if I was interested in someone and they were keeping our R a secret from their GF, I would make a mental note of that because that tells me something about a guy's integrity.

Fact is men and women who date often if not all the time move from dating one person to dating another person and the relationships overlap......right????

I think that you are correct about this. I choose not to do this myself, but I think many others do. When I met H/XH he had a 'friend with benefits' with whom he ended the benefits right away when it became clear that we were 'ga-ga' for each other.

My sister said “He feels that he is telling her the truth” because he told GF#2 that he doesn’t want to marry her. When XH and I first started dating we told each other that we wanted a long-term commitment with each other within a couple months, and within 6 months had bought a house together. H/XH initiated all of this between us.

Unless you haven't shared something with us, you have done nothing with him that would cause anyone to think he or you are acting sleazy.

Believe me, YOU will be the first to know if I ever get an advanced table tennis lesson from XH!

........speaking of table tennis, I DID try to inject some romance during last week's game (one of Jody's recommendations).Tried to put ping pong balls into XH’s pockets. He backed away and told me his pockets were full. I said that he needed to be balanced, although usually the balls on one side were bigger than on the other side. I told him that if he had a lot of ping pong balls in his pockets they would roll around and make him feel really good. He said that would give him something to think about later and laughed----so he acknowledged the innuendo.

You are correct in that XH and I are light years ahead of where we were right after the bomb drop. A first happened yesterday: XH sent a funny email to me and CC’ed both MY sister and HIS sister (X-SIL). That hasn’t happened since before the bomb. I got a Halloween card from X-SIL today and she emailed she wants to get together when she comes to town in a few weeks.

I see your XH moving towards you, just because he is dating somebody right now does not mean that he is not interested in you.....in fact he even said so.....

He said "No........She's not really someone that I intend to be with in a long-term R".

Why would he say this if he was not interested in you. Let's decipher what he is really saying.....

"I am with her right now but I need time to shake her off and I don't want to lose what I have with you right now."

Interesting perspective. Is this really what this translates to in manspeak???????? REALLY????? I hadn't thought of it this way. I really am clueless when it comes to what men think. I rely on the men here to try to gain insight into the male thought process...........kinda like a biologist characterizing a new species.

...............more in a bit.

[goodattitudegirl]

Having my car repaired now so wanted to address a couple other points........

I just reviewed some of my journal entries from 6 and 12 months ago.......and I think the primary thing that I notice is that XH and I now have an easiness about our interactions that wasn't there before. Like 2 old friends. Could be because of the weekly TT outings......or maybe because he feels insulated by GF#2. I can see in my e-mails to H/XH 1 year ago that I was really chattering in an effort to engage him. I've done very little of that since the D. ...........Jody said that someone close to XH thinks that I am so much of a threat that they sent the anonymous package. I guess that also tells me something about what XH may be saying about me to those close to him.

Last week I also told XH that the former GF of his BMF and I had been doing things together socially. This was a pretty significant revelation since once XH has a chance to think about it he will realize that means I know about events in his life after the bomb. This will probably be threatening to BMF too. I felt that the time had come to disclose this to XH since he and I had been opening up more to one another in the last 6 weeks. Will be interesting to see if that impacts our dynamic.

CW and Cas, Jody told me in August that I should try to move toward the romance stage. At that time we thought the R with GF#2 had ended. She said that I should get online and read some dating profiles to change my mindset because the appearance that I'm out there may lower his resistance to me. At dinner after TT, I told XH about some of the men in the TT league, embellishing a bit. The 9 year old girl and I are the only females playing with about 25 men of all ages. Just wanted to give him something to think about.

Lance and Seeking, your discussion was REALLY helpful to clarify things for me.

JMO but hasn't GAG already let go when she and her XH divorced?

To me it sounds like she's in the process of building a new R with him. Just like when you begin dating someone you really don't know where the R will go.

GAG's getting to know the new XH. Who knows, maybe she'll find out that he's now someone she would no longer want to be in a long term R with.

SA, I think you hit the nail on the head. When I looked back at my journal entries I saw that I dropped the rope big time for about 7 months, starting last October. I went pretty dim. I think that you are correct that I am in the process of building a new R with XH. I AM moving forward with my life. XH is not preventing me from looking around at other men. I just know that I am not ready yet. Part of the reason for this may be that XH and I still have a special connection.

Also is GAG's husband still in replay?
Or is he trying to reconnect with her to end his replay antics?

Lance, I think XH is and has been in replay for many years. I really think his BMF is primary contributor to this. I saw XH growing up a bit during the summer when BMF was out of the picture (Jody said she thought XH reconnected during the summer because BMF was out of the picture even thought GF#2 WAS in the picture), but last week it sounded as though they had returned to the same old behavior patterns. If that is the case I think I will have no choice but to move on. XH's response to the fingerprint analysis will be telling.

If you made it through this, thanks for reading. Your feedback has REALLY helped me to see these developments in a new way. MUCH THANKS!!!!!!!

GAG

[MHL]

He said "No........She's not really someone that I intend to be with in a long-term R".

Why would he say this if he was not interested in you. Let's decipher what he is really saying.....

"I am with her right now but I need time to shake her off and I don't want to lose what I have with you right now."

Interesting perspective. Is this really what this translates to in manspeak???????? REALLY????? I hadn't thought of it this way. I really am clueless when it comes to what men think. I rely on the men here to try to gain insight into the male thought process...........kinda like a biologist characterizing a new species.
[/quote]

AHHHHH, yeah!!!! and let me tell you something else, this was a golden opportunity to ask him WHY??

Look my W sat on the beach with OM#1 and bitched about her life and about me for hours on end and all he had to do is actively listen and actually offer advice to actually help her.

Yep, that is right, the guy that ended up taking my wife from me actually offered her help to fix her R with me. I can hear the conversation now, and her response "Gee, you are so easy to talk to....." and so it began.

It seems counter intuitive, BE HIS FRIEND.....for real. A real friend would ask him why the woman he is dating is not the one for him.

If I was a betting man, (and actually I am, LOL) I would say that when you and your XH met you would talk for hours on end about the most intimate details of your lives.......right???

PSSSSSTTTT, it happens in most new R's.......really stop and think about it, a girlfriend is telling you about this guy she just met and how they talk on the phone for hours on end.

He wants to talk about or better yet bitch about the woman he is with, [censored] who doesn't want to bitch about thier mate. No one sits around and goes on and on to someone of the opposite sex about how great thier mate is, if that were the case they would not be with you.....THEY WOULD BE WITH THIER MATE. DUH.

IS THE PICTURE BECOMING A LITTLE CLEARER NOW???????

sorry to raise my voice, hehehehehe.

Okay, hopefully you are getting the picture that this is a brand new thing between you and Mr. Goodattitude, but first it has to become a thing.

Use a blended approach between listening and validating whatever he is saying, and I do mean whatever!! Even if it is about the woman he is dating, and FLIRTING.

There are books out there on FLIRTING......GO BUY ONE TONIGHT, your central time and most book stores are open until 10pm so you got time.

Remember what I said about the movie a page or 2 ago???? Ask if he would like to do something with you otherthan table tennis. Go back and reread what I said.

You guys are going to play Wednesday, right??? So get a beer or a bite to eat afterwards, engage in conversation about his world and then pose the question and then the response I suggested.

Not sure I answered the your question up there about manspeak but I will leave you with this thought.......the book in question is "He's just not that into you"......He has seen the book, knows the title, do you think that he is inclined to verify the thoughts of whoever sent the book or maybe he is thinking about showing them how wrong they are.

Personally if I were him, it would piss me off and I would do the exact opposite of whatever someone else was thinking about me.

Make sense.......I hope so, cuz I think I confused myself...LMAO.

Cheers

[goodattitudegirl]

MHL,

Thanks for your thought-provoking post. Your last few posts have been mind-bending so my brain is still trying to adjust. Reviewing my old journal entries really DID help me to see how far XH and I have come........while at the same time the passage of time and events have led me to finally take XH off the pedestal I had him on. A horoscope I follow said this today:

"This may not be the most painless time, but consider this a phase of deep cleansing in order to discover something precious.

It’s like when you start to clean a drawer and then you realize the whole kitchen needs re-organizing, and there’s a fine mess behind the refrigerator that hasn’t been swept in years. Then you can’t ignore it, but just when you’re done cleaning, you find the ring you thought you’d lost…"

This made me think that our weekly get togethers could be an opportunity for XH and me to become more honest with each other, in a way we haven't been before. Your suggestions fit right into this in that talking to XH about his unhappiness with GF#2 could be a way to have a R talk with XH without talking about OUR old R. Not sure if he'd open up to me about that though.

I will look for a book about flirting on the way home from work tomorrow. Interesting idea........and I will think more about what you wrote.

Thanks again MHL!

GAG

[Mila]

Hi GAG....Finally had a chance to catch up with your tread.

GAG you are so patient and methodical and you have made incredible progress in reconnecting with your EX. You seem to be doing all the right things. But you also mentioned that you think that he is still in replay...wouldn't that mean that he may not be quite ready to go any further at this stage? Not sure if they all follow the same pattern...

I re-read Hearts Blessing's 6 stages of MLC. Here is the link if anyone needs a refresher.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...ite_id=1#import


(((hugs)))