Change is in the air........

[goodattitudegirl]

Jack, Grit, Seeking.........I like your ideas! Burned, betrayed, bereft, bruised, and bamboozled! The 'burned' suggestion was very clever! I like the juxtaposition of 'burned' with 'boiler'..........my sister says this sounds a little gruesome though.

Hey GAG, seems like you are on the "LBS hampster wheel"... Just know that you will cycle back around again and that it is normal, or at least it is happening to me, soooooo that means it is normal....

Hey MHL, I am right there behind you on that hamster wheel. In fact, I see your fluffy, powder puff tail not too far in front of me. It helps to know that I am not the only one, so thanks!

XH e-mailed me today that he can play table tennis on thursday this week (remember that our normal day has been wednesday, but the room isn't available Wednesday, so I reserved Thursday instead. Told XH I would practice then, but he was welcome to come and play if he wanted to.........It's interesting that he chose to play on Thursday because last week XH told me that BMF had asked to plan a regular 'boys night' every Thursday. Interesting......

Try something like this next time......
Hey, Goodattitudeguy, would you like to go to a movie with me?
If, Goodattitudeguy says "yes", then you could say.....that's nice, maybe I will say yes if you ask me sometime....then smile,spin, and walk away and flip your hair the way you girls do when your trying to be cute.

I like this suggestion. Maybe I will try this, but I will have to practice flipping my hair. I'm more of the demure, ice princess type ("you can look, but you can't touch"). I might hurt myself.

CW, I'm sorry to say that the 9 year wiped the floor with me. She won all her games tonight!

GAG

[goodattitudegirl]

Journaling.........

Today I took samples of fingerprints from BMF to the forensic scientist. Not sure how long it will take him to do the analysis.

BMF's former GF has been acting very strangely toward me for a couple weeks. She is acting like her feelings are hurt about something.

Played table tennis tonight with XH for 2 hours. We laughed a lot and really had a lot of fun. On the way out of the building, XH said "Oh, let's reserve for next week".

I had asked XH if we could talk afterward (to give him an update on the forensic testing), so we went to a little restaurant that we used to go to a lot. XH told me all about a big problem at work for about 20 minutes. I listened and validated.

Then I told XH about the latest forensic result and about BMF's GF. I have kind of had the sense that OW#2 was still in the picture and something that XH said must have confirmed that suspicion for me, so I asked him about it. He said that OW#2 had come back to him 1 week after he broke it off with her in September (he said he broke it off because she wanted to get M and he didn't) and they have been together since that time. I said "Does OW#2 know that we play ping pong?" He said "No........She's not really someone that I intend to be with in a long-term R". I said "Did you keep secrets from me when we were together?" He made a facial expression to indicate "kinda" (not sure what those secrets might have been).........and quickly added "I never cheated on you".........Then I looked at him and said "You're really good at the first part (of a R), but not so good after that". I started to ask him how long he had been with OW#2 and he said "certainly not when we were together".

I had brought an inkpad to get his fingerprints and after that he fingerprinted himself. After that we walked out of the restaurant. I walked directly to my car (not in an angry way, just businesslike) and looked over my shoulder to say goodbye (no hug like we normally would do in the past --- I didn't give him a hug last week either). He looked a little surprised and said "See you later". I said "Yes".

Shortly after I got home I phoned him on his cell (he picked up quickly) to say I just wanted to say thank you very much for helping me to get BMF's fingerprints. I wouldn't have been able to do it without you". He said "I was glad to help. I want to know who sent you the package too". We chatted for about a minute and I said goodbye.

...........Here's what I need to vent and would very much like feedback on. I have endured the indignity of smiling when my heart was breaking and returning thoughtlessness with thoughtfulness since the bomb 25 months ago.........and the reason I did this was because I truly loved the man that I was M to and felt that he was going through a mental health crisis........and I DO think that he continues to be stuck in an earlier developmental stage. I always felt that he was a wonderful person and always wondered (like most of his friends always wondered too) how he could have such an immoral BMF........Now that XH has confirmed that he is still "dating" OW#2 even though he doesn't see any potential for a long-term R and not telling her about our table tennis games, this situation just feels SO sleazy to me and I feel that I deserve better. I feel that I am seeing the real man in a way that my love for him didn't allow me to before. I continue to lose respect for him (I haven't told him this) when I had him on a pedestal for such a long time.

I'm feeling like telling XH that I won't be a party to this sleaziness...........yet at the same time I know that DBing says that when you can become H/XH's OW, that can be a good thing.

Just frustrated and hoping others may have different perspectives on this situation. Thoughts are welcome.

GAG

[dolphin_05]

Now that XH has confirmed that he is still "dating" OW#2 even though he doesn't see any potential for a long-term R and not telling her about our table tennis games, this situation just feels SO sleazy to me and I feel that I deserve better. I feel that I am seeing the real man in a way that my love for him didn't allow me to before. I continue to lose respect for him (I haven't told him this) when I had him on a pedestal for such a long time.

I'm feeling like telling XH that I won't be a party to this sleaziness...........yet at the same time I know that DBing says that when you can become H/XH's OW, that can be a good thing.

Just frustrated and hoping others may have different perspectives on this situation. Thoughts are welcome.

So sorry that this is your situation GAG. I know the pain and the dilemma of this scenario. Like you, I'm interested in people's perspectives.

It seems everyday I wrestle with this dilemma....do I pretend the relationship doesn't exist and hope it'll work out in the end or do I draw the line in the sand and hope for the best down the track. Then I get upset with myself because I feel I'm not any different to ow. H answers this dilemma by saying that we're friends and there's nothing wrong with being friends. But does he tell ow when we're together and if he doesn't why not?

[goodattitudegirl]

Cas,
are
Thanks for your thoughts. It seems as though there are a lot of hard decisions being made around here lately.

GAG

[goodattitudegirl]

Cas,

Thanks for your thoughts. It seems as though there are a lot of hard decisions being made around here lately.

GAG

[LanceSijan]

I'm feeling like telling XH that I won't be a party to this sleaziness...........yet at the same time I know that DBing says that when you can become H/XH's OW, that can be a good thing.

DO the part in BOLD.
He is cake eating.
You do not want to become the new OW.
You want him to look within and finish his crisis.

Have a boundary and stand up for it.

As long as you let him get away with cake eating he will not finish this.

If he wants to have a R with you then OW has to go!
He must go through OW withdrawal, depression, withdrawal stage and acceptance.
Until he gets to the last three stages you can not have a R with him.

[goodattitudegirl]

Lance,

I value your opinions and appreciate your feedback very much. I am deeply disappointed that the integrity I attributed to H/XH appears not to be there. That is one of the main reasons I "stood" all this time. Now I am feeling as though the persona that I knew was a mask. ............and I guess on some level I have come to that realization slowly since the bomb. I understand now that he wears the mask (and to be honest a lot of us wear masks at times) because that allowed him to survive a traumatic childhood.

I don't have a problem setting this boundary. My problem has always been that I tend to be a distancer (because of my mother's frequent and unexpected rages during childhood) and I have really been trying to change. (Hence my reference to myself as a "demure ice princess type" a couple days ago here.) It would be the easiest thing in the world for me to fall back on that old behavior.

What I would very much like to do is to set this boundary in a more self-actualized way. I would welcome folks' feedback on what this might look like. I think that at the very least I would start by telling XH that I can't continue to play table tennis with him if OW#2 doesn't know what's happening.

But what I would like to say is that friends do things together and share one another's lives. If he ever wants to do that with me in a less superficial way I would be open to that, but that this so-called friendship has been unbalanced for some time and I deserve better than being treated like someone that he sneaks around with behind OW#2's back.

Thoughts?

GAG

[courageous wife]

HI GAG

I agree with Lance in NOT becoming the OW to the OW...

Did XH say WHY he is not telling her about his playing TT with you?

[MHL]

GAG,

First, I want to say I like you and I look forward to your posts and I have nothing but high hopes for you reconciling with your XH.

With that being said I would like to point out some things that I see. It is sometimes hard to look objectively at our own situations, that is why we are here to give you a different perspective.

1. You are divorced, this is your ex-husband and he is currently not married, he is no different than any other eligible bachelor out there. (sorry that is harsh)

2. He is dating a woman not a "other woman".

3. He is not living with her, (I assume)

4. He is not married to her and has no plans to.

What am I getting at here????

You are playing table tennis with a man, plain and simple and you are trying to win him over to move your relationship from friendship to a romantic one......right????

If you had not ever been married to him and had just met him, how would you be acting??? What would you be saying??? I know that is not the case but ask yourself that. Would you feel sleazy in that situation??

Fact is men and women who date often if not all the time move from dating one person to dating another person and the relationships overlap......right????

AND

Unless you haven't shared something with us, you have done nothing with him that would cause anyone to think he or you are acting sleazy. A peck on the cheek, and some nice hugs. (this wouldn't even come close to sleazy for grit and eric)

That being said, if you were in the same situation with some other man, are you saying that you would not carry on with that person because they were dating someone else???

Now if he asks you to hop in the sack for an advanced ping pong lesson.....well that is a different story.

Not done with the wood yet.....

so I asked him about it. He said that OW#2 had come back to him 1 week after he broke it off with her in September (he said he broke it off because she wanted to get M and he didn't) and they have been together since that time.

Nothing wrong with this, a legitimate question between 2 people who are doing things together.

I said "Does OW#2 know that we play ping pong?" He said "No........She's not really someone that I intend to be with in a long-term R".

Even this is okay, and I like his response, more about that in a minute.

I said "Did you keep secrets from me when we were together?" He made a facial expression to indicate "kinda" (not sure what those secrets might have been).........and quickly added "I never cheated on you".........Then I looked at him and said "You're really good at the first part (of a R), but not so good after that". I started to ask him how long he had been with OW#2 and he said "certainly not when we were together".

This up here ^^^^^^ is R talk and that equals pressure and if you were with any other man that you did not previously have a relationship with you would not be asking him if he kept secrets, cheated, or lied in his previous R......would you?????

Look I know this is hard, and what is even harder to see is that you are actually making progress. Stop a minute, look over your shoulder, see where you have been.

Yep, you come a long way.......DO NOT THROW IN THE TOWEL NOW!!! And do not do or say anything that is going to cause him to experience pressure.

Oh...BTW, why do you need a boundary??? I totally disagree with this. YOU are entitled to your feelings but at the end of the day YOU are the one choosing to feel sleazy, YOU are the one that is passing judgement on his behavior. HE is not making you feel this way, HE cannot make YOU feel anything. I know boundaries are to protect you from his bad behavior, right???? What is it exactly that this man is doing to you that is so bad? (forget the past)

This is the hard part as you move closer to him you are voluntarily openning yourself up to some of these feelings. No one said this is going to be easy and that you are not going to have to deal with your emotions.......comes with the territory....dig in GAG, you can do this.

I see your XH moving towards you, just because he is dating somebody right now does not mean that he is not interested in you.....in fact he even said so.....

He said "No........She's not really someone that I intend to be with in a long-term R".

Why would he say this if he was not interested in you. Let's decipher what he is really saying.....

"I am with her right now but I need time to shake her off and I don't want to lose what I have with you right now."

It was also his idea to schedule another game next week.....right????

I am sorry, but what are you expecting at this point? (hopefully nothing). He is not going to just drop her and run back to you, and if you keep up some of the stuff you are doing he definitely won't.

However

If you get back up, dust yourself off and start laying some of the GAG charm on him you will continue to see him SLOWLY warm up to you.

Remember.....what is love but, friendship on fire.....(nickel Grace)

Be his friend with no pressure.

TIME and Patience GAG

[courageous wife]

Hi GAG

Intersting perspective that MHL put out there...true, you are not married to him....so she is not really OW although, was she OW when you were still M?

What did DB coach say when you talked with her last about interacting with exH?