DBing...is trying something...monitoring results, and adjusting accordingly to meet your goals. If you achieved your goal (provided it is small enough), bingo!
Ummm.. I think this is a tad bit of an oversimplification don't you?
The text is over 200+ pages... I hardly think this is even a halfway fair summary of the db process...
I agree with Frank. DB & DR lay out fairly specific approaches to dealing with hurting marriages in a way that gives a very large chance of reconciliation (as opposed to D). One of the strong points of DB is that it is not rigid, but is flexible in taking into account how one's spouse may react, and adjusting accordingly. However, it seems to me that one can faithfully apply all of the DB techniques and still not be able to save the marriage. That does not in any way invalidate DB principles.
There are other approaches (such as Retrouvaille) that take a somewhat different tack - the primary difference is that RV is couples work, whereas DB appears to be primarily oriented towards one spouse in the marriage. Hence, I view the two as complementary.
<drumming fingers & tapping feet for sgctxok to start the new thread>
There are much more effective ways of setting a boundary than that. In this case, Person A (or anyone who is criticizing, name-calling, etc) is unconscious and is not open to hearing or responding to what Person B does or says.
It is far more effective to validate first until they become conscious, then the boundary can be set firmly - and because they are then conscious, they will be open to actually receiving it.
Someone who is so unconscious as to be calling another person an idiot is likely to react negatively to also being called abusive.
By walking away or immediately reacting with the "limit," there is no opportunity for this. My experience has been that it is much more effective to validate the other person first and then set a limit.
Curious - How would you validate someone calling you a idiot? Why would you?
"Listen to what you are saying? Is that how two adults talk to each other?"
Is that what you mean?
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Sometimes walking away is the most effective thing you can do.
You might want to say something like, "I'm not going to listen to you if you don't accord me with the same level of respect I have given you", but then walking away when it keeps going on (or even just writing that person off until they can prove they treat others with a basic level of respect) might be the only thing you can do and still follow your own principles and mores.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
There are much more effective ways of setting a boundary than that. In this case, Person A (or anyone who is criticizing, name-calling, etc) is unconscious and is not open to hearing or responding to what Person B does or says.
Unconscious? This is what you think is going on?
If the person is "unconscious" enough to hurl abuse at their spouse what on earth makes you think that anything that is said will make a dent...?
If they are this bad I think the text advocates using actions not words...
Validate? I really can't imagine anything that can be said that would make much difference if things have gotten as bad as the example above.
What makes you think they are any more likley to hear something when its delivered warmly when they are hurling abuse at you?
When people get this hostile you usually get laughed at...
I really don't see the point in saying much of anything.
Registered: 08/13/99 Posts: 521 Loc: Divorce Busting Center USA Dear DB'ers,
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How is it marriages are somehow different from almost any other negotiation in a community?
Curious - How would you validate someone calling you a idiot?
See below. The 'why' is a better question first.
Originally Posted By: Coach
Why would you?
Good question!
Any one of a number of reasons, including:
This is a person you care about and with whom you have a relationship you wish to continue. This is a person you care about and with whom you have a relationship you wish to continue.
In this moment, they feel they have no other way to express themselves.
You want to communicate to them how you wish to be spoken to, which means that they must be open to hearing you. Since they are unconscious, they are not able to hear you, and anything except validating them will keep them unconscious (and even make them more so).
You want to deepen intimacy and trust so that future conflicts have a better chance of being addressed in a more comfortable and effective manner.
You do not want to criticize or make them wrong, since that will only provoke more defensiveness and be a barrier to an open channel of communication.
Although they may be expressing it in an unacceptable and ineffective way, there is usually an important message that you want to hear and understand. (Which of course doesn't mean you have to agree.)
There's a lot more, and I hope you get the idea.
Originally Posted By: Coach
"Listen to what you are saying? Is that how two adults talk to each other?"
Is that what you mean?
No. This is actually making both wrong, and is calling them childish.
The context of the statement is crucial - what was said or done just before Person A calls Person B an idiot? These statements generally don't just come out of the blue - and even when they do, there is always a precursor to them. That is the key to validating.
Tone of voice and body language is also an important element (since most communication is not in the words but is non-verbal). As a result, I may not be able to convey the full impact in the words alone.
Assuming that Person B has just said something that has triggered Person A into calling them an idiot, possible responses include:
"So you strongly disagree with what you just heard."
"So you are not okay with what was just expressed."
"So you are uncomfortable hearing that."
"So it's hard to hear what was said."
"So you have a different point of view."
"So you would rather something else had been said."
I could go on, and I hope you see where this comes from. It typically takes a few iterations, of course, depending on the depth of the other person's pain. One continues the process until the other person becomes conscious. At which point they are open to hearing a gentle, but firm, limit.
